Trail Boss in 45-70 creating large velocity spreads.

dthunter

dthunter

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I have noticed that trailboss tends to give large velocity spreads at times.

As much as 120fps.
This is not good for accuracy, especially when your average velocity is around 1100fps.
I have used standard and magnum primers to no avail.
I have been shooting a 415 grain cast bullet.
Very clean bullets, weight segregated and visually inspected.
The cases were crimped to give a good starting pressure.
The bullet is within 0.030" of the rifling. And still function through the "lever" action. Marlin 1885SS guide gun. Ballard rifling.

The rifle was shot on a bench with bipod & sand bags at 100 yards.
Any accuracy ideas as well guys?

Lets hear your ideas you gunnutz! 
 
is your brass all the same head stamp?

have you weighed your brass ?

have you checked the brass length is it within .005 for the lot ?

Do you weigh each charge?
 
Just having fun:
Yes to all questions on your post.

Prosper:
That sounds interesting. Most of the charges I have tried were "lightly" compressed. I will look into that thankyou.

Lodi:
Thats just silly.
If you dont have something useful or constructive, why bother posting?
If you had an idea like prosper, give it.
 
Have you slugged the bore of the rifle? If the bullets are coming out at .457", they are probably too small and you will shrink that spread by moving up to a .460" bullet or even .461"

You need a magnum primer for big loads of trail boss. Are you perchance using CCI primers? Even CCI's magnums are quite weak. Give Remingtons a shot and see if you have better results.
 
Pathfinder:
I am getting about 2.75" groups. I was hoping to get closer to 1-1/2" or less.
I was just thinking that a velocity swing of 10% seemed exccessive.
I aggree with you thats it isnt always linked to accuracy problems.

Thebigslide:

My bore is about .458"
I measured a few bullets that I recovered. I even tapped a soft slug through the bore.

My cast bullets come out at .458 right from the mould.
That could be a problem as well.
 
dthunter said:
Lodi:
Thats just silly.
If you dont have something useful or constructive, why bother posting?
If you had an idea like prosper, give it.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hurt your feelings.

This is what reloading is all about, finding a load that works. The first post seems as though you have tried numerous recipes that failed. At this point it seems as though you are trying to force the recipe to work. Record the data for future reference and move on, time to try a different powder.
 
Lodi:

Do you know of a very high volume/ low density powder like Trailboss that allows near 100% loading density in nearly all cartridges? It should be ideal for reduced velocity loads.

I have tried 3-4 different trailboss loads as stated above,(300,350,400,415gr), but would like to save some time on the loading bench. I would like to try some loads that donot compress trailboss. I havent tried that yet.

I am very meticulous about recording all my load data and results. I agree thats very important.
I even go so far as to keep the targets for future reference as well.
 
I've tried Trail Boss in about a half dozen cartridges.

I do like it, but I have found it gives me, by far, the largest spread in terms of velocity, of any powder I know. Particularly with jacketed bullets. 80 fps spread is not uncommon in my experience.

I would honestly suggest moving on to another powder since your groups are poor, BTW.
 
dthunter said:
Lodi:

Do you know of a very high volume/ low density powder like Trailboss that allows near 100% loading density in nearly all cartridges?
Click to expand...

What is your actual goal? What do want from the load?

- Is it using Trailboss?
- Using a high volume/low density powder?
- Using one powder for all cartridges?...with near 100% loading density?
- Using an uncompressed load?


Once you have the goal of the load, then you work with different components to achieve the goal. My initial post was based upon my perception of the desire to use Trailboss exclusively. My personal reduced loads for the .45/70 was something along the lines of 20+grains with an over powder wad under a 400gr cast bullet.
 
dthunter said:
Pathfinder:
I am getting about 2.75" groups. I was hoping to get closer to 1-1/2" or less.
I was just thinking that a velocity swing of 10% seemed exccessive.
I aggree with you thats it isnt always linked to accuracy problems.

Thebigslide:

My bore is about .458"
I measured a few bullets that I recovered. I even tapped a soft slug through the bore.

My cast bullets come out at .458 right from the mould.
That could be a problem as well.
Click to expand...


I would try something at .459 before anything else.
 
dthunter said:
Pathfinder:
I am getting about 2.75" groups. I was hoping to get closer to 1-1/2" or less.
Click to expand...

Jeezus...you're worried about groups of 2.75" @ 100 using trail boss and cast boolits in an 1895! :confused: That's pretty decent shooting and I'd be happy with those results. I'm not saying you won't shrink down a little bit, but if you're looking for an MOA rifle go back to a bolt, or at least a quality jacketed bullet with a load of powder that shows consistent velocities. I love trail boss for what it is but it is not a go-to powder of mine when trying to squeeze max accuracy at the bench.

Now, I know I'll get flamed by every intranet marksman who owns a Guide-Gun, but I have alot of experience loading for 1895's and 1894's and if you're down near an inch for three with a quality jacketed bullet or a quality hard-cast bullet appropriately sized to your bore, you sir have a mighty accurate Marlin on your hands.
 
Thanks guys for your suggestions.

Sometimes my expectations can be too high.

I have had the largest vel. Spread with jacketed bullets, just as Northman999 had experienced.
I will try a few more different powder charges with each bullet and call it good with Trail Boss.
My goal essentially was to get an accurate load in the 1100-1250 fps range with bullets ranging from 300-400(jacketed), and the same with my cast 415gr. Flat point.

This should be a pussycat load to shoot for my wife and friends kids.
I am sure other powders will do fine if Trail Boss doesnt.
 
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