Trail Boss

Dingus, I am still scratching my head over what is causing the stretching top straps in the original top-break S&W's that Dave Chicoine told me about. He didn't know except it had something to do with certain smokeless loads (which ones, he had no idea). Keep measuring your top breaks for top strap stretching to see if any occurs. TB is a very fast powder. Some suggest it isn't fast powders that do it, but slow ones (like I use). I can't see how that would be. I'll keep measuring mine as well. Do you know what kind of velocity you are getting with the 5.5 grains of TB?
 
casterpollox said:
My friend and I loaded 12 grains of Trail Boss under a 200 grain lead this weekend and found it to be very accurate at 50 yards in his 45 LC.
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How can you put 12 grains of Trail Boss in a 45 colt??? I load mine with 5.5 and the case is more than half-full...
 
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I am almost certin that hes getting guns that have had Very HOT loads put thru them.
I have had NO streching with hunderds of Rds.
Besides think about it for a Minute. the top strap is held to the frame by that Case hardened Latch. The Latch is held to the top strap by a Screw a soft Screw.
Now ive bent them screws that causes the guns to loosen up abit.
Ive bent Screws on Webley MKVI Latches as well with Heavy loads.
But the Frame streching i think thats a Strech all on its own unless heavy hand loads are used BUT the latch screw would bend or the Latch will bust before that Thick top strap would Strech.
Its the Weakist point thats gona give.
To me thats the Latch Screw and Main frame to barrel Hing Screw.

I have Replaced them screws on Loose guns with New Screws and they Tighten right back up.

Also 12 Grs of TB in a 45 Colt Holly crap the max load is 6
12 grs in a 45 70 i can see that. But 12 in a 45 colt unless your Compressing it and shooting it in a Ruger Black hawk?
This thread is for TB loads in ANTIQUEs
The most ive tryed is 6.5 in a 45 colt.
Thats a fairly hot load. over 730 FPS
The 5.5 in the Schofield was 640 or so FPS
Trail Boss presure curve spikes faster than unique with over Max loads so be carefull with it in if your going higher than Max loads.

I use 2400 in my Heavy loads the same stuff Keith used.
Its got a Slow presure curve. Best in solid frame guns like the Webley Army Express and the SAA Colt.
 
My friend and I loaded 12 grains of Trail Boss under a 200 grain lead this weekend and found it to be very accurate at 50 yards in his 45 LC.
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Also tried in 45/70 with cast 400gr bullets, 12.6 gr gives 1003 +/- 3 fps from Marlin 1895. I'm very impressed
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The most ive tryed is 6.5 in a 45 colt.
Thats a fairly hot load. over 730 FPS
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Always find a second opinion LOL.
 
dingus said:
I am almost certin that hes getting guns that have had Very HOT loads put thru them.
I have had NO streching with hunderds of Rds.
Besides think about it for a Minute. the top strap is held to the frame by that Case hardened Latch. The Latch is held to the top strap by a Screw a soft Screw.
Now ive bent them screws that causes the guns to loosen up abit.
Ive bent Screws on Webley MKVI Latches as well with Heavy loads.
But the Frame streching i think thats a Strech all on its own unless heavy hand loads are used BUT the latch screw would bend or the Latch will bust before that Thick top strap would Strech.
Its the Weakist point thats gona give.
To me thats the Latch Screw and Main frame to barrel Hing Screw.

I have Replaced them screws on Loose guns with New Screws and they Tighten right back up.
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Dingus, what you said makes perfect sense to me. I'm starting to go with the hot loads theory as well. Just for a reference point, I measured my original Old, old Russian tonight. I held the gun upside down by the grip, with the muzzle resting on my desk, so that any give at all in the latch would be taken up to give the maximum reading. I measured from the centre of the firing pin, to the centre of the bore, with the sixgun in this position. After numerous careful measurements, I got 1.5035". Then I made the same measurement, with the gun upright, held by the grip and muzzle on the desk, to compress the distance as much as possible. I got 1.5005". So my latch appears to allow 003" play, between compression and tension forces on it.. I will continue to shoot both black powder and smokeless loads, making periodic measurements to see if the 1.5005-1.5035 distance changes at all. If those measurements do not change, then I'll know my smokeless loads are just fine. I've done the same with my NM#3 and found no change after a few hundred rounds of smokeless.
 
Thats a good way to Measure.
but keep in mind the latch Screws wear and i would suspect them before idd suspect the frame Streching.

I had one S&W was loose at the hing and latch and looked bad so i pulled both screws out you could see the Wear from the latch and from the hing.
Like i said new Screws made it a like new gun and a new cylinder bushing it was a ridden hard put away wet kinda gun.
I dont want to argue with Chicone but the guns he found so called strech on he didnt shoot or know Exactly what was shot in them.

Aparently even Modern Revolver Frames strech with the Super hot modern loads. but because the gunsmiths can screw the barrels back into the solid frames to take up the Head space (something we cant do with our old Break top S&Ws)
They can easy tune up a modern revolver.
But that Streching is form ulta Hot hand loads.

Im betting your loads and even my loads :D are fine.
 
Let's all step back a moment and reflect on the load of 12grs. of Trail Boss in the .45 Colt.....this really should be scrutinized closely....as pressure levels could/should be way above what can/should be used in the Colt. My testing using the case head expansion method had us stopping at 7.5 grs. and a 200gr. bullet, once you go above max. with T.B. the pressure rises quickly. Warning....ANY NEW RELOADERS OUT THERE, DON'T TRY THIS!!!!!
 
dingus said:
I dont want to argue with Chicone but the guns he found so called strech on he didnt shoot or know Exactly what was shot in them.
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I don't want to argue with him either, but the hot loads theory is the only thing that makes sense to me. Here's my theory. During the mid-part of the 1900's, up to maybe the early 1960's, these old S&W top breaks were not valued the way they are now. It would not surprise me at all if a lot of them were subjected to reloaders who were hot-rodding their loads. That's the only things that could explain Chicoine's hundreds of damaged frames. I think most people are much more careful now with their top breaks, simply because they are a lot more valuable.
 
Thanks for all the opinions posted here fellas I just wanted to check with you guy's before I did any damage to my 44 Russian. I was pretty sure I was alright, but I've thought that before and pissed on my own boot. Thanks again!
 
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