Trap - safe muzzle control etiquette?

MauserMike

MauserMike

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SW Ontario
I've been shooting trap for about 6 months now and I am steadily improving.

I have a question since this came up in my last shoot. I heard another trap shooter instructing a newbie to always keep the action on a pump/auto open and the gun pointed in the air, not at the ground while walking with the gun. He said that only the break action guns should be pointed at the ground while open.

Is this true? Have I been making a mistake in etiquette pointing my open 870TB pump action trap gun at the ground? I can't see why it would make a difference as the open action on a pump is fairly obvious to see by the slide in the rear position. Maybe its possible for the action to slam shut if pointed downwards?
 
Safe muzzle direction is a personal choice. I prefer to keep my firearm pointed down at all times while walking to traps, changing stations, or waiting to shoot on a station, regardless of action type.

IMHO, it's safer to have an AD into the ground than into the air.

While on the line, it is possibly distracting to your squad mates to have your shotgun in the air.

As for the action open, that's really not up for debate. The only time your action is closed is with a shell in the chamber on the line when it's your turn to shoot. Period. Pump position is a moot point if your loading port is open. That's where the fun is, so that should be the obvious tell tale.

Basically, it sounds like you have been doing it right, so keep on shooting.

Bill
 
As long as the muzzle is in a safe direction it doesn't matter. However muzzles can tend to creep up and point at another shooter's legs while changing positions or walking around. With a semi it's often difficult to see whether the gun is open or not and if a semi owner does that to me I will immediately ask him to show me that his gun is empty if I can't tell.
 
I like the semi/pump muzzle in the vertical position with the open action pointed outward so every one can see it's open. I hold the butt stock in my left hand and let the gun lean on my arm, barrel up, when walking between stations. Lots of semi/pump shooters grab the receiver around the ejection port with the barrels more or less parallel to the ground and swing around and walk to the next station. This gives me the willeys. Same goes for those who hold the semi/pump in the crook of the arm. As long as the muzzle is pointed out in the range area while walking or in the vertical and the open action is visible, then all is well. :)
 
The guys I shoot with (present company included ;)) don't hestitate to point out something they know/believe is unsafe. This kind of atmosphere lets you know that people are watching and any etiquette gaffs or firearm mishandling are quickly communicated.
 
safe muzzle direction

I always have mind pointed down. or broken and over my shoulder with the muzzle forward. My father always told me "if you only remeber one rule in gun saftey it should be muzzle control. That is the part that kills.
How strict rules are applied varies from club to club. I was shooting trap at a club as a guest and they did not call a end, so I load another shell, then when I realized what happened I opened my gun and walked to the next station. I just about got my head chewed off for not taking the shell out of the gun. I am all for saftey but I thought that was little over the top. that would not happen at opur club. Action open gun proved safe
 
It's good that you ask!

People who are serious about firearms safety never take personal offense if asked to show safe or if an action is open/empty. If it's all done politely and in everyone's best interests, there's nothing wrong with reminding each other, and staying alert. That creates a safer shooting environment.

The ones careless about muzzle control, and are annoyed at being reminded, are not invited back.
 
I prefer to see a pump or semi pointed up, just because it's so easy for them to creep up. Personally I just find it easier to keep a semi or pump pointed up. A double broken open carries naturally with the barrels down, I don't find pumps and semi's do.

As far as leaving a shell in the action between stations I would ask you not to do that too Kenny. I wouldn't be upset about it but I would politely ask you not to do that, there is no need for it to be loaded walking between stations and if you walk like me there is a very real chance of tripping. Plus nearly any time I've been or came close to being or seen someone get swept with a muzzle on a trap range it was changing stations. I am in no way accusing you of ever doing that, it just makes me feel better about being on the line with you if you keep it unloaded when moving.

If you were chewed out about it that was a bit rude, but it was for the safety of you and everyone around you, next time it might be a guy who isn't as muzzle control conscious and you might be swept by a loaded gun.
 
muzzle control

Well I don't want to start a pissing contest here but these were the facts.
As a rule I always walk to another station with a empty gun. It was the lack of an end being called that made me load a sixth round. When I realized what happened I walked the five paces to the next station with my gun, action open, broken barrel pointed at ground. At this point a person walked up to me and told me, in a loud tone, that I broke club rules and if I did it again I would be ask to leave.
I apologized, and continue to shoot with out incident. No big deal.
Now lets compare. It is a completely acceptable practice to walk in a field with a loaded gun with the safety on, where there is unsure footing, tall grass fellow hunters to look out for.
So safety being first in every situation then we should walk in the field with our gun empty till we flush a bird? of course not. We have a safety on and we practice safe muzzle control and are careful where we step.
On the day that this happened I had three of the club members speak to me in private. They thought that what I did was not that big of a deal. They also said that they have seen many club members do the same thing without anything being said.They said, it just boils down to an new, over zealous range officer watching guest shooters like a hawk.

This is fine. I have no argument with them. If they have club rules, they must be followed and I was in the wrong. The point I was making I guess is when traveling from club to club realize how differently rules are enforced.
 
At most Skeet/Trap clubs, the only time you are allowed to have a cartridge in your gun is when you are on the pad about to shoot. If you aren't on the pad then you shouldn't have a loaded gun.

New/guest shooters need to be watched like a hawk, however, if someone unintentionally violates such a rule there are better ways of correcting the person than calling them out and embarrassing them.

Brad.
 
Kenny, which do you think the other shooters on the line would rather - KNOWING that there is no loaded shotguns walking across the line behind them, or wondering what other rules you are going to break with that shotgun?
 
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Kenny said:
The point I was making I guess is when traveling from club to club realize how differently rules are enforced.
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Kenny:
You are right! Not only are the rules enforced differently, but some times they are not enforrced at all.

If you were to watch a squad of experienced A.T.A. trap shooters you may be surprised how many times your see shooters change stands without removing shells from their break actions guns or removing chambered shells from pumps and autos. You may also be surprised how many close their actions long before it is their time to shoot. This is most noticable in doubles. Although I never do this I shoot with shooters who do this frequently. I very seldom complain and I am not making excuses for them because they do know the rules. That said, I am very seldom worried because I see the guns broken and make it a point to know those who do not open a pump or auto. Empty or not I never allow an excuse for bad muzzle direction, and never wait for someone more polite than me to bring it to their attention..
 
safety first

Bernie I can only speak for myself. I have no problem with anyone following me to another station with a broken or open action, as long as they are practicing safe muzzle control
Heck. I have someone following me from one time to another all fall long when we hunt over the dogs. Their guns are loaded and closed, with safe muzzle control and safety on till the gun is shouldered.
But by all means yes I should consider others. If some feels that there is a threat of me stumbling and jamming the barrel into the ground that somehow closes the action of the gun shut and then somehow my finger slips onto the trigger and then I roll on my back and point the gun in unsafe direction, and tragedy follows. Then I should and will follow all safe rules to the T
I just can figure out how these same people mange to take the huge risk of getting into a car to get to the shoot in the first place.
 
Now lets compare. It is a completely acceptable practice to walk in a field with a loaded gun with the safety on, where there is unsure footing, tall grass fellow hunters to look out for.
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While I believe I know what you mean here, I'm not sure I'm in agreement with this statement either. If the footing is sufficiently unsure, and you have other hunters to look out for, you may not be in a hunting situation where you should be walking with a gun on safety only...
Regardless of the circumstances, it should blindingly clear that a firearm with one in the pipe, closed, open, on safe or otherwise, is significantly more dangerous than one which is not so chambered. Absent a chambered shell, an accident cannot happen. With one in, an accident can happen, however remote the chance.
 
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Covey Ridge said:
If you were to watch a squad of experienced A.T.A. trap shooters you may be surprised how many times your see shooters change stands without removing shells from their break actions guns or removing chambered shells from pumps and autos. You may also be surprised how many close their actions long before it is their time to shoot.
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I'm not as concerned about a closed action on the line. I don't like it but put up with it as long as the muzzle is down range.

But a shell in the chamber and/or a gun that is not open while changing stations is NEVER acceptable and deserves an immediate correction.
 
saftey

Skip I agree with what your saying about footing, If it gets too bad, then you must unload till you have better footing. The point I was trying to make is that almost any time in the field the risk is greater of tripping then on a cement pad of a trap range.
I am not trying to make light of gun saftey here. These are the establised rulles of the game and so be it. Is it over kill? In my humble opinion, yes, a little bit. However I can live with that.
I watched shooters at a club last weekend, much bigger club than our own and saw at least 12 people walk to another station with a cambered shell,and lost count of the people that closed thier chamber well before it was thier turn to shoot.
I supose this was a small percentage of the over all shooter.
It is a great game, and by all means lets keep it safe .. I chewed up 99 out of a 100 last weekend. Oh yeah I forgot, you never hit 99 you always miss 100 straight.
 
Kenny said:
I watched shooters at a club last weekend, much bigger club than our own and saw at least 12 people walk to another station with a cambered shell,and lost count of the people that closed thier chamber well before it was thier turn to shoot.
I supose this was a small percentage of the over all shooter.
.
Click to expand...

In my opinion, what you saw is more the norm than a small percentage. When a change is called, I more often see the change without removing the loaded cartridge from the chamber. Mind you these are break actions and muzzle direction is always safe. I have never seen a club that got tough on this, but I have seen officials go over the top with newbies or those they do not know. Over the top to me is better than tuning a blind eye to everything.

BTW a 99 is not a guarantee that you will get hardware, but it is NICE SHOOTING!!
 
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