Trend in High End Rimfire Rifles

[Jefferson]

seems that over the last couples of years there is a small but growing interest in accuracy for better class of rimfire guns that shoot,

I have bought a couple and sold a couple, seems that more and more questions are coming that relate to better groups, better scopes, better rests and other equipment, and so on. CORRECT OR NOT ????

more later

Jefferson

 

[ronword]

rimfires

Dont forget how accurate and easy to train with are the old style BSA martini rifles, single shot and in all sorts of weights peep sights are incredibly simple for most people---Ron.

 

[Sniper22]

Yes, correct but still very small since similar result can be achieved by
getting a savage.

 

[Epoxy7]

I think we're just hearing about it more thanks to the internet.

One of my accurate high end rimfires is a Walther KKM single shot. I'm very impressed with it so far. That being said it was probably imported into Canada during the late 60's or early 70's. So not really all that new .

 

[cz452shooter]

Hi Jeff,

I think that is generally right. More and more people seem to be liking the idea of extreme accuracy from there rimfires. With the advance in technology and well and with there being several manufactures for high end components it does get more people interested. Although it is sometimes hard to get these components into Canada it is still possible to make a highly competitive rimfire.

For me personally it was the rimfire online matches on Rimfire central that got me interested. When I first started I was shooting scores of around 200 out of 250. Sonner than later I found some good ammunition and got a bit of a better set up. Eventually I landed on a very solid set up (my 52).

I have some high end rimfires (Feinwerkbau 2700, anschutz 54, Winchester 52D custom and Valmet Finnish Lion) and it is fun and exciting to shoot all of these guns.

I think the biggest problem for some people trying to get into it is how expensive it is and also that there is not a whole lot of competition (for benchrest). This is mainly why I got into my three positiion shoting which I am very glad I did but it would be nice if there was some more benchrest competitions around.

 

[Winnipeg Toymaker]

I have had excellent results from some "common" makes of .22s. I shoot a 50 year old Lakefield MarkII topped with a 3x9x scope and enjoy the pattern even at 150 yards. My son shoots a Stevens topped with the same scope and improves on my shooting patterns. I have not shot for targets at 50 yards but varmints do not last long between 50 and 150 yards. These delighful guns do not need to be expensive nor big name to shoot competently. Accuracy comes with practice and knowledge of what your gun is capable of.

 

[reg]

Sheeting groups does not really show you the difference between a decent modern production rifle and a first rate bench gun. Shoot enough five-shot groups with most any decent production rifle and the right ammo and you will eventually get an impressively tight group. Shoot one USBR target with a savage or even an anschutz or walther and one with a properly set up custom bench gun and you will see a significant difference.

From the time I started shooting rimfire I always wanted more accuracy.
I bought a lot of nice rifles, mostly competition guns from the 1950s. I think there must have been a lot more interest in competitive rimfire shooting in the 1950s, because they sure made a lot of really accurate position rifles around then. Then I started shooting benchrest matches online through Rimfire central. I bought a case of official USBR targets and a used rest from a top US bench shooter. The Canadian Lapua distributor lives nearby and I got to know him pretty well.
It was when I stopped shooting groups and started shooting USBR targets that I could really tell the difference between rifles and between different lots of the same brand and type of ammo, even the same lot on different days with different temperature and humidity.

Point is, I agree with ronword and cz452shooter, to get the best benchrest accuracy you need a handmade bench rifle, or at the very least a first quality prone or position rifle with an accuracy plate on the forearm. Production rifles will not stand up in benchrest competition. If you don't have the time or aptitude for tuning, the money for extensive ammo testing, or if you don't have world class skills, I agree you may get better results with a big heavy old match rifle like a BSA Martini International. Most days I was scoring better with my Mark II than with the custom 52 I sold to cz452shooter. When he tuned it properly, switched to ELEY, and shot it at the skill level it deserved, he blew away my old scores with the same gun. I guess the Martini is just more forgiving, it's a lot heavier and less fussy about ammo, and I think the hinge action keeps the rifle from moving around on the bags so much between shots. I think it is an excellent first rifle for beginning bench shooters.

I think the main reason for the resugence of interest in rimfire accuracy is online matches. The US matches on RFC have generated huge interest. A few years back I set up some online matches here on CGN but gave it up due to lack of interest. Props to cz452shooter for starting his own matches, sticking with it and making them work.

 

[super7]

Point is, I agree with ronword and cz452shooter, to get the best benchrest accuracy you need a handmade bench rifle, or at the very least a first quality prone or position rifle with an accuracy plate on the forearm.

I've been shooting informal benchrest type shooting for groups (5 shot groups, just for personal enjoyment) for a little while but I have never even tried shooting a USBR target. I just picked up what I think is a 3 position match rifle with accessories (peeps, bipod, shoulder hook and some other stuff that I don't know what it even is). Excuse my ignorance but what exactly is "an accuracy plate on the forearm"......is it this and if so, how is it used/how does it affect accuracy?

 

[maynard]

I've been shooting informal benchrest type shooting for groups (5 shot groups, just for personal enjoyment) for a little while but I have never even tried shooting a USBR target. I just picked up what I think is a 3 position match rifle with accessories (peeps, bipod, shoulder hook and some other stuff that I don't know what it even is). Excuse my ignorance but what exactly is "an accuracy plate on the forearm"......is it this and if so, how is it used/how does it affect accuracy?
QUOTE]

The "accuracy plate on the forearm" is an accessary rail for mounting a handstop(single point sling attaches to of near it), bipod (just a rest not to shoot from) and palmrest for shooting standing. Google 3P shooting.

 

[super7]

let me rephrase......in the context of benchrest shooting, how does the accuracy plate help accuracy....or is his point that it's probably a decent rifle if it has one?

 

[reg]

what exactly is "an accuracy plate on the forearm"......is it this and if so, how is it used/how does it affect accuracy?

When I refer to "accuracy plate" I mean a 3" wide aluminium or steel plate with bolts that attach it to the accessory rail. It is a way to make a 3p rifle more suitable for benchrest without restocking. The wider and flatter the underneath of the forend, the easier it is to shoot well from a rest. Specialized benchrest stocks have a 3"wide forend with a flat bottom. Most bench competitions specify 3" max forend width, and it must not pick up the rest when you pick up the rifle.
You can buy these retail but I prefer to go to a metal shop, buy aluminum stock, and polish the heck out of it. Brass toilet hold down bolts fit pretty well in most accessory rails, or you can borrow the fittings from your palm rest or sling.
Here are some photos of some position rifles I converted to benchrest by adding accuracy plates. Accuracy does not have to be expensive.The last photo is a USBR target I shot with a 1" aluminum plate on the forend of a BSA martini international from a homemade wooden rest. Total cost was under 1K.
(Click on thumbs)

 

[cz452shooter]

Super7 - looks like reg preatty well answered your question. If you go to any benchrest competitions in the states you will see that preaty well all of the rifles have 3" forends. They are made like this for several reasons. Main reason is because of cant. The guns with the smaller forends tend to wobble in the rest more and each shot are knocked out of position so that when you shoot them again they are at a slightly different angle. This small ammount of angle can make a huge difference so with the benchrest stocks and wide forends they are basially at the exact same angle each time. Furthermore with the benchrest forends you can return them to the exact same position each time. You will see in the pictures that reg and I (below) have posted that our rests have stops out ahead where you push the gun until the stock is up against them. This ensures that the rifle is in the same position.

Benchrest stocks rarely have the accessory rails on them - there is no need for them. It is just as manard mentioned - for 3p type shooting where a riser block, palmrest, sling attachment, etc is needed to attach to them.

Here are a couple of pictures.

3P Rifle

Benchrest

Valmet (shows forend stop)

25 Yard Benchrest

50 Yard Benchrest

100 Yard Benchrest

Jordan

 

[MapleSugar]

Wow! Some of you guys have some really nice rifles.

All I've ever shot that is high-end, is an Anschutz Silhouette.

 

[250-25X]

seems that over the last couples of years there is a small but growing interest in accuracy for better class of rimfire guns that shoot,

Hi Jeff,

That's a very good question. As it has already been said, maybe we get this impression because of internet ?

You have to keep in mind that smallbore 3P and especially prone was a VERY popular sport in North America from the '40 right through the '80. Out of these thousands shooters, many were tinkerers who were already trying to get the ultimate accuracy from their guns. If you can, take a look at a '60 vintage Freeland catalog: there was back then a lot of gadgets available to improve accuracy (electric bedders, integrated fore-end ''tuners'', etc)

Now, can we say that modern rifles are more accurate that they used to be ? For centerfire, it is obvious (a 6PPC is more accurate and dopes wind better than a .222) but in rimfire, it's a different story. Nowadays, we can get better triggers, better stocks (for both 3P shooters and benchresters), better scopes but I am not 100% sure that we get better rifles.

There was already some very high quality rimfire barrels and actions decades ago. I don't know for sure if modern ones are more accurate. Anyone who shot a Winchester 52 or a Remington 37 will agree with me. I bought a 37 last spring. With RWS ammo, I got an average of .38'' for 5, 10-shots groups. Keep in mind that this rifle was built more than 70 years ago !

As far as the ammo is concerned, I think we have more choice now but again, I'm not sure that the match ammo we now shoot is much better than it used to be. I know that there are thousands of shooters worldwide who would do anything to get a case of '70 vintage Tenex in paper boxes or Olymp Russian ammo (count me in !)

Paul

 

[Eagleye]

There is something peculiarly gratifying about settling in at the bench with a very accurate rimfire, and watching the holes appear in the target. When one is shooting benchrest at 50 yards [or meters] there is often only the slightest enlarging of the original hole on subsequent shots. You just know that if you see a shot out of the group, it was either the "driver" or failure to read the wind.

Rifles have been around for some time that will put shot after shot into the group, as already mentioned by Paul. How good a bore does one need to get to the redundant stage? I have a couple of custom barrels on rimfires. These are generally expected to be the end-all, but I really can't say they are all that much better than a couple of expensive factory offerings I have. Maybe in a string of 100 - 10 shot groups at 100 they might show their slight edge, but for the average seeker, they are probably unnecessary. A serious bench shooter competing at the nth level may want such, but for most of us, it's window dressing.

On a lark, I tried shooting a few groups at 200 meters with a couple of my "good" rimfires. The results astounded even me! If fed ammo that they like, and conditions are right, they will do very well indeed. As for that Olympic Ruski ammo, Paul, I would love to lay my hands on a case or two!! Regards, Eagleye.

 

[surfclod]

.22 is a Heritage Gun

Here is why my most expensive rig is a .22.

(Kimber Classic, Talley QD rings, Leopold EFR rimfire Scope, I'm not sure if that qualifies as a "High End" gun but it was the most I have ever spent on a rifle.)


I feel that a .22 is a family heirloom whether it be an old Cooey or a complete custom that cost a fortune. Whose first experince shooting did not involve a .22 and a father or grandfather out back with some tin cans? And I hope to be able to shoot my .22 after I am an old codger. ( a buddy of mine took his now deceased grandfather out for one last gopher hunt a few summers ago and this was with an old .22)

While I don't shoot benchrest, accuracy was one of the reasons that I ended up buying a High End gun. I got tired of guessing whether it was my gun, my scope, my ammo, or (usually) me that made my accuracy good somedays and crap the next. Now when i miss I know its my fault.

I also love the AAA walnut, cut checkering, crisp trigger, etc. I will never wear it out and hope to hand it down someday.