I've had a few really good pistols and on some have noticed a lot of play up until the trigger hardens and breaks...Is this normal...I don't like the creep on a trigger...I like a trigger that when you touch it there is minimal play before it breaks...I'm new at pistols so I'm wondering if this is normal or what...
Trigger Creep
- Thread starter conmaesta
- Start date
smashwagon
Member
- Location
- Quebekistan
some pistols have it , some dont its normal. i see in your other thread you mention your new cz-75 shadow and if that the pistol your talking about cz-75s are notorious for having trigger creep.
Yes, you are exactly right, and other semis I've had as well...I don't like it but I can deal with it...So far I love the Cz shadow but I'm really starting to appreciate my Norinco 1911 A1C. Don't get me wrong...can't compare to the shadow but it is very superior to other pistols I've had. Just my opinion based on my limited experience.
It's often called "take up". The usual technique with that sort of trigger is to learn to press just enough to "take up" the slackness, and then press to crisply break conact with the sear. In a combat pistol, it really shouldn't make much difference. When you're slow firing, as in target shooting, it's a technique you can learn. If it really concerns you, take the gun to a professional gunsmith who might be able to eliminate the extra travel length.
I have this on my SP01 Shadow too. When I take up the slack of the trigger in single action and stop pulling when the trigger tightens it doesn't break at that point. It creeps just a little bit then breaks.
I was told by someone, not sure how accurate this is but it kind of makes sense, that it has to do with the engagement of the sear and hammer and the angles that they are cut. If I play with the creep by pulling the trigger back and forth only in the "creep" zone, between the end of the slack and when it breaks, and I watch the back of the gun where the sear engages the hammer, you can see the movement. The sear and hammer have quite a bit of friction before it breaks. Apparently it can be fixed. Some say a competition hammer might fix it. I have yet to have my competition hammer installed. We'll see if it fixes it.
I was told by someone, not sure how accurate this is but it kind of makes sense, that it has to do with the engagement of the sear and hammer and the angles that they are cut. If I play with the creep by pulling the trigger back and forth only in the "creep" zone, between the end of the slack and when it breaks, and I watch the back of the gun where the sear engages the hammer, you can see the movement. The sear and hammer have quite a bit of friction before it breaks. Apparently it can be fixed. Some say a competition hammer might fix it. I have yet to have my competition hammer installed. We'll see if it fixes it.
Since this is about the Shadow you need to realize that the take up when shooting in SA mode is where you would be pulling to #### the hammer in DA mode. So you can't get rid of the take up travel or the gun would no longer be able to be used in DA.
With a little practice you will soon get used to simply sweeping the trigger back to the resistance point for the SA mode with the initial build of finger pressure. If you're finding that it's there for every shot then you're not "riding the reset". It also suggests that you're "clutching and releasing" instead of building pressure to the rear travel limit and then with the same care releasing the pressure. If you develop this build of pressure to the rear stop and then similarly ease the pressure progressively you will easily feel the reset click through the trigger. At that point you can begin building pressure in the trigger finger to the rear. You don't need to fully release between shots at all.
With a little practice you will soon get used to simply sweeping the trigger back to the resistance point for the SA mode with the initial build of finger pressure. If you're finding that it's there for every shot then you're not "riding the reset". It also suggests that you're "clutching and releasing" instead of building pressure to the rear travel limit and then with the same care releasing the pressure. If you develop this build of pressure to the rear stop and then similarly ease the pressure progressively you will easily feel the reset click through the trigger. At that point you can begin building pressure in the trigger finger to the rear. You don't need to fully release between shots at all.
I stand corrected. I had always considered that triggers had take up and either a poor break or what Jeff Cooper called a "snapping glass" break. It's true that a bad breaking trigger can be a problem, and I'll just accept that it's "creep". It just read to me like "conmaesta" was describing "take up". My apologies for the confusion.
In most single action handguns you will have three distinct phases or components of the trigger pull sequence.
1. Pre-travel or take-up. This is the spring loaded free travel in the trigger that occurs before the mechanism comes to the point of sear load.
2. Sear load. All pre-travel is gone and you are now holding against the sear or striker.
3. Over-travel. The movement in the trigger that occurs AFTER the sear or striker releases. You need a certain amount of this for proper follow-through.
For accurate shooting (surprise break) you ideally want a pretty crisp breaking sensation in the sear release. The feeling of "creep" you are noting is that sensation of movement that can in some guns occur between the sear load and sear release phases. It usually (but not always) means the engagement surface of the sear is not meshing correctly with the engagement surfaces of the hammer hooks so the sear is essentially rubbing across it rather than building pressure and then releasing cleanly.
The sensation will be a little different for striker fired guns. You will still have pre-travel and after-travel but the trigger will feel a little more "spongy" when you are loading and pressing through the striker until release. You might interpret this as creep. A good 'smith can probably smooth this a bit for you but it will always feel like it's stacking.
1. Pre-travel or take-up. This is the spring loaded free travel in the trigger that occurs before the mechanism comes to the point of sear load.
2. Sear load. All pre-travel is gone and you are now holding against the sear or striker.
3. Over-travel. The movement in the trigger that occurs AFTER the sear or striker releases. You need a certain amount of this for proper follow-through.
For accurate shooting (surprise break) you ideally want a pretty crisp breaking sensation in the sear release. The feeling of "creep" you are noting is that sensation of movement that can in some guns occur between the sear load and sear release phases. It usually (but not always) means the engagement surface of the sear is not meshing correctly with the engagement surfaces of the hammer hooks so the sear is essentially rubbing across it rather than building pressure and then releasing cleanly.
The sensation will be a little different for striker fired guns. You will still have pre-travel and after-travel but the trigger will feel a little more "spongy" when you are loading and pressing through the striker until release. You might interpret this as creep. A good 'smith can probably smooth this a bit for you but it will always feel like it's stacking.
