Trying to decide caliber!

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wallz

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I know, you ask here and get LOTS of suggestions on which way to go, but here goes.

Some back ground. Rifle is to be used as a bench shooter to our range max of just under 1400M, and hopefully soon 1600M for steel plinking, having fun. Not going to rule out any competitions but that will be low key and not a priority. That said I have been part of some of our 1000M marksmen challenges, and enjoyed it. May look at others near home, but not a priority.

It will be mounted in a chassis stock, and going to be a lefty action, even though I'm a right hand shooter. Just something I have wanted to try out. Already have an action in mind, and trigger sitting at home, and chassis will be free for use later today. More on this in a bit.

I had set up a 6.5CM and had been enjoying that for the last 3000K plus rounds and have sold off my tips I had remaining to go a different route, possibly. Some brass still remains.

I have taken my youngest, a 15 yr old daughter out a few times to shoot the 6.5, but she was having a bit of a hard time with the recoil, even though it is a 16+ lbs rifle. She shot it great, but didn't enjoy it. I went to a 223 for her, which she enjoyed and had fun with. Out to 500M it was awesome, but further out we were struggling with wind. No where near as much on the 6.5 with wind. Yea I know a small caliber, and we were using 75gr tips, but just getting blown around way too much to have any real fun out further. On the few calm days we slung lead out to 1000M with ease. She has sparked some interest in joining a 1000M marksman challenge as well, so I will be building her up for that.

Well I decided to build her a 6GT on the action that has the now spent 6.5 barrel on it. New barrel already ordered, dies ready, and just received a new chassis for her to use on this new set up. Something to make it hers, plus being a small shooter she can adjust the butt stock for her profile. We will be sitting down tonight and have her put it together, and then we will spend some time and set it up for her comfort. I'll source out some brass and decide on the tips for her use, but it won't be pushed hard, as that will induce more recoil, which I don't want for her. Probably settle down into a 105 gr tip. This will free up my chassis for my build.

Was planning for her to use an Mpod I have, and we will sit down and build a rear air bag system for her rear set up.

Soooo, this will free up my chassis, my scope, and I already have a trigger at home. Have already decided on the action, but really just need to nail down a caliber to shoot. I have contemplated a 6GT as well, and run it harder with 109 tips or heavier, near max to deal with wind better. I had run my 6.5 CM with 139 gr tips at 2950 fps, just a hair under max and it shot well through the 26" barrel.


So trying to pin down a caliber for my build, and don't want the fiddle with a wild cat caliber: What would you suggest and why in the short action?? No I don't want a boomer, and already shoot 6.5 PRC, and 450 BM, so I don't want a boomer. I want to see bullet trace, and spot hits, misses, plus get out to our range max. Something inherently accurate, and easy, just like the 6GT.

Have contemplated:
1. 6 GT
2. 6.5 x 47 lapua
3. back to 6.5 CM.
4. ??
 
If you have components and everything for the 6.5 that makes the most sense. A pair of gt’s so you can share certain things also makes sense. If you want to try something new then my vote goes to a 25 cal. 25 creed or 25x47. 133, 134 or 135 at 2800-2950fps would be perfect. Recoil manageable, yet still capable
 
25 Creedmoor?

I don't see a reason to go 6.5x47 over 6.5CM if you already have some dies and brass.

all these newer 6/6.5mm options are great. You are basically just deciding on speed and barrel life.

For the longer distances you mention, I might be looking at a 6.5 possibly with longer freebore to run the really heavy stuff. or a 7mm wildcat of some flavour.

Though your K.I.S.S. answer is to go 6.5CM or 6GT...
 
RX5o said:
If you have components and everything for the 6.5 that makes the most sense. A pair of gt’s so you can share certain things also makes sense. If you want to try something new then my vote goes to a 25 cal. 25 creed or 25x47. 133, 134 or 135 at 2800-2950fps would be perfect. Recoil manageable, yet still capable
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I can't imagine the 25creed recoils meaningfully less than a 6.5? We're talking a few less grains of bullet weight, but higher velocity.


OP if the 6.5 was too much for your kid I'd be going to a 6mm. 6creed would probably get my vote simply for the relative ease of components. If you're okay with the extra hassle that comes with a 6gt then go for it!
 
My 6GT is a laser. You know that 1168m little target at your range? I had a 1st round impact on that back in Aug. I’m running 105 Berger hybrids with H4350 at a leisurely 2775fps. The barrel is an IBI 26” MTU contour in an ACC chassis.

Your daughter would love it.

I shot this out to a mile, and the winds really push the 105 around. So it might be underpowered if you’ll be playing at the back end of your range.

I’d think about the 25 cal offerings as a compromise for you.
 
Suther said:
I can't imagine the 25creed recoils meaningfully less than a 6.5? We're talking a few less grains of bullet weight, but higher velocity.


OP if the 6.5 was too much for your kid I'd be going to a 6mm. 6creed would probably get my vote simply for the relative ease of components. If you're okay with the extra hassle that comes with a 6gt then go for it!
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The recoil from a 6.5 to a 25 isn’t a massive difference but it is less, the ballistics on the 25 are impressive though. If he’s already building a 6gt for his daughter, a pair of them make sense. If he wanted more then the 6.5 since he already has everything for it makes the most sense. If he’s just lookin for an excuse to try something new then the 25 gets my vote
 
6GT or 6.5CM both good choices, 6.5 will resist wind better.
Rifle, you can add weight. The recoil pad that is worn on the shooters shoulder helps young shooters, it builds confidence.
Good luck.
 
280aiguy said:
Take a hard look at the 7 Saum..Thank me later.
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Not really looking for more recoil, as I want to watch trace and hits.

I did look into the 25 creed, and that for sure looks interesting. Also ran across the thought of the 25 PRC. Basically the 6.5prc necked down to 25 cal. Very interesting for sure.

But in the end the wind bucking is something I will be looking at for sure, and might just stay the 6.5 and go with the heavier 150sih gr compared to the 139gr I was using. Maybe going the other way with 130gr tips and pushing them even faster. I'll have to check the numbers when I get a chance. That and a closer comparison to the 25 creed are going to happen and decide from there. I still have time, as I have to build up the disposable $$ that got chewed through on the daughters build.

Sometimes two of the same rifle gets confusing as well. Different chamber so most likely different settings on the FL sizing die, and I would for sure use a heavier bullet, so different seating die. I hate having to dial in the die's for different settings. New set of dies for me is just easier in the end. So that means brass as well.
 
I think the 6.5cm must be almost out of juice for 1600. 25 cm speed might help if you crunch the numbers. If I had the cash I would do the 7prcw but realize that’s a wildcat and has more recoil. You could always make the rifle heavier to compensate. I have only shot my 6.5 cm out to 1040 yards so far, but it does not seem like a fast enough round for extended distances.
 
Another thought for you Wallz: train your daughter to be a great spotter. Ultimately, that will make her a better shooter. Invest in a quality spotting scope and use the features on a Kestrel like ‘Trace’ to tell the spotter how high to look for trace.

We did that at RFMA because we were shooting in 10-20+ mph winds. It was really the only way to see where our shots were going. When you get a handle on that, then you start getting those long range impacts and you worry less about the wind.
 
If just for you and you want to shoot further with a small case, there is little that will beat a 6.5CM as you already know. We have taken the 6.5 CM to 1 mile with ease. Me, I run a 308Win and 200gr because of my FTR days... no problem to 2200yds with 2600yds on good days.

For relaxed shooting, you definitely do not need a boomer of any kind. If you are going far enough that the bullet is going near or through subsonic, how fast you launch it isn't going to make a big difference way the heck out there.

For your daughter, I can highly recommend the 22CM with reduced loads and the 95gr Sierra (around 2900fps). This is a superbly capable 1500yds setup with amazing drift numbers and easy to spot when compared to the 6mm. Recoil is also soft

Bore life is around 2000rds with light loads which is all that you need

not a fan of 6mm but they are certainly popular.

Jerry
 
Sticking with a 6.5 Creed is the easy button for you. If it were me, I'd just investigate some higher BC bullets, not even necessarily the new heavies. Most of the 140gr class 6.5 bullets have better BCs than the 139gr Scenars. Would give you a bit better performance at range in the wind. Or go with the heavies. Maybe try a 28" barrel for a bit more speed.

Conversely, there's a lot to be said for just building a 6GT to match your daughter's. Commonality of components, ease of reloading (could more likely than not run the same ammo in both rifles), same dope, same wind calls.

If you want something to up the performance but not the recoil, you could do a 6 Creed and push 110s around 2900 (in a 26" barrel) which is pretty mild for a creed and gives very decent barrel life (normally around 2500 in my experience). Your daughter would also enjoy shooting that as the recoil is negligible but it would have a bit more performance down range compared to both the 6GT and the 6.5.
 
Well, doing a bunch more reading into this, and I think I am going with either the 25 creed or the 6.5 creed. The daughters 6GT barrel is ordered and won't be changing, and I don't think I want 2, even though that seems like a bit of an easy button, but I want something with better numbers, plus I could always shoot hers if need be.

Will be doing a bunch more crunching with the numbers, and looking at the higher BC bullets for the 6.5. Not much choices for the 25 cal tips, so the 135 gr berger's is on tap if I go that route.

I'll probably look at bullet availability once I'm ready for my barrel and then pick one or the other based on what I can get for tips. Maybe even start to amass tips now while some are available.
Conversely, there's a lot to be said for just building a 6GT to match your daughter's. Commonality of components, ease of reloading (could more likely than not run the same ammo in both rifles), same dope, same wind calls.
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The same ammo, dope and wind calls doesn't really sway me. I would push mine to just under max, so for sure the tips would be different, and the recipe would as well, and I'll be using RL16 in mine, while I still have some stock. I have found RL pushes the 6.5CM nicely and 100fps or more above the other powders I tried in it.

I’m Loading the new Lapua Max Range 144 grs ( advertised BC is .670 ) over N555
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Jim, you still haven't shot those??? You have been sitting on those for months now. Slacker!!!
 
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What ballistic solver are you using? I looked at my Kestrel for my 6GT and at 1000m with a full force wind of 10mph, it results in about a 11% windage change if I bump my fps up almost 200fps from where I am now. 2.8 vs 3.1mil wind.

Irrelevant for my situation.

Have you checked your case with these different bullets and fps to see how the wind calls would end up being on your scope? It might help make up your mind.
 
jimbo14 said:
What ballistic solver are you using? I looked at my Kestrel for my 6GT and at 1000m with a full force wind of 10mph, it results in about a 11% windage change if I bump my fps up almost 200fps from where I am now. 2.8 vs 3.1mil wind.

Irrelevant for my situation.

Have you checked your case with these different bullets and fps to see how the wind calls would end up being on your scope? It might help make up your mind.
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Our range is not flat, so using a kestrel there is kinda pointless. Any wind we have from our shooting position is not the wind we shoot through if we go past 500M.
To get to 1000M, it is a slight 3-5 deg upslope (these are off the top of my head as I don't remember the exact numbers), plus from 500M to 900M there is a gulley we cross. This gulley creates a turbulent wind with no real way to watch it, or figure it out. It is roughly a 100M vertical difference, if not more, from the bottom of the gulley to where the bullet flies through on the way out to 1000m. It is hard to explain really without a picture.

IMG_8261.PNG

This is roughly a 20-25 ft wind pole set up at 300M. That is one of our 1000M targets that you see above the top of the pole as seen through my spotting scope.
 
wallz said:
Well, doing a bunch more reading into this, and I think I am going with either the 25 creed or the 6.5 creed. The daughters 6GT barrel is ordered and won't be changing, and I don't think I want 2, even though that seems like a bit of an easy button, but I want something with better numbers, plus I could always shoot hers if need be.

Will be doing a bunch more crunching with the numbers, and looking at the higher BC bullets for the 6.5. Not much choices for the 25 cal tips, so the 135 gr berger's is on tap if I go that route.

I'll probably look at bullet availability once I'm ready for my barrel and then pick one or the other based on what I can get for tips. Maybe even start to amass tips now while some are available.


The same ammo, dope and wind calls doesn't really sway me. I would push mine to just under max, so for sure the tips would be different, and the recipe would as well, and I'll be using RL16 in mine, while I still have some stock. I have found RL pushes the 6.5CM nicely and 100fps or more above the other powders I tried in it.



Jim, you still haven't shot those??? You have been sitting on those for months now. Slacker!!!
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Your Right ! Shooting the 6 GT mostly - Love it 😍
But next week I will be back at the 65 CM 👍
 
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