TUkish OU shotguns

zebra26

zebra26

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Location
Quebec
Looking at ou shotguns Ive found the weatherby orion is made by ATA. Yildiz sells under its name here in canada.
Both brands are established in the UK. From what Ive been able to gather the brands are close but ATA seems to be a little out front.
Now O Dell engineering has the Canuck line. Anyone know who makes them? There is also churchill, anyone know who makes these shotguns?
Mind you Ive not seen any product under the ATA brand in canada, at least not yet.
Im interested in 20ga.
All comments welcome
Cheers
 
Akkar (Churchill) and Huglu are well respected brands for o/u's, with good availability in Canada. I have examples of each, and while they are not B guns, they are well appointed and reliable.
 
They are targeted to a shooter that shoots 60-100 rounds a year which is fine from that perspective they are over priced but that’s the new reality .
If one was taken to a trap or skeet shoot and shot 500-600 rounds in two days they would fail .
 
struff55 said:
They are targeted to a shooter that shoots 60-100 rounds a year which is fine from that perspective they are over priced but that’s the new reality .
If one was taken to a trap or skeet shoot and shot 500-600 rounds in two days they would fail .
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I keep hearing this claim. Got any videos or articles showing this as a fact? I would tend to agree you get what you pay for. But when it comes to this claim that Turkish O/U and doubles can't shoot the same round counts as non Turkish brands, I have yet to see actual proof.
 
struff55 said:
They are targeted to a shooter that shoots 60-100 rounds a year which is fine from that perspective they are over priced but that’s the new reality .
If one was taken to a trap or skeet shoot and shot 500-600 rounds in two days they would fail .
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Yes, they’re made for hunters who count their shots in hundreds per year, not competitors who shoot thousands of rounds per year and expect unfailing reliability. They are priced as a hunting tool, not as a precision long term clay breaking machine. CZ, Huglu, Churchill have been around long enough now to show a decent reliability record in the game field and some of these guns are also holding up fine to casual clay target shooting. One of our club members has been happily putting 2000-3000 a year through his Churchill - hasn’t failed, hasn’t shot loose. Is it as well made and will it last as long as a Browning, Beretta or even a Perazzi? Well no but for his usage it looks like it’s doing fine at a fraction of the cost. Serious competitors begrudge every single miss and they will spend whatever amount they think will help them win. Not all shooters are the same, that’s why Winchester made the solid, serviceable but clunky model 24 SxS as well as the Model 21 for those wanting their best and willing to pay for it.
 
Ribstaylor said:
I keep hearing this claim. Got any videos or articles showing this as a fact? I would tend to agree you get what you pay for. But when it comes to this claim that Turkish O/U and doubles can't shoot the same round counts as non Turkish brands, I have yet to see actual proof.
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Then again, I have not seen a single cheap Turkish shotgun with 100,000 rounds through it, although I have seen many clays guns with more than that shot through them.
 
The guns are as different as apples to oranges. The "B" clay guns will outlast the Turkish guns. Well, I hope so they are up to 4 times the cost and are built for clay shooting with thousands of rounds fired per year. The Turkish guns are for hunters and casual shooters. I have a Canuck .410 o/u and a Tristar 16-gauge o/u. Neither will ever be fired more than 100 to 150 times a year and both will last me a lifetime. I am a hunter and very casual clay shooter. The price of these guns allows me on limited wealth to enjoy shooting an o/u shotgun in less popular gauges. I doubt any shooter with intent to shoot 100's of thousands of rounds will even look at a Turkish gun. The same for a hunter, casual clay shooter would look at a 3000.00 target gun. That is the reason why there is very little evidence of a Turkish gun having thousands of rounds fired through it.

Darryl
 
madtrapper143 said:
The guns are as different as apples to oranges. The "B" clay guns will outlast the Turkish guns. Well, I hope so they are up to 4 times the cost and are built for clay shooting with thousands of rounds fired per year. The Turkish guns are for hunters and casual shooters. I have a Canuck .410 o/u and a Tristar 16-gauge o/u. Neither will ever be fired more than 100 to 150 times a year and both will last me a lifetime. I am a hunter and very casual clay shooter. The price of these guns allows me on limited wealth to enjoy shooting an o/u shotgun in less popular gauges. I doubt any shooter with intent to shoot 100's of thousands of rounds will even look at a Turkish gun. The same for a hunter, casual clay shooter would look at a 3000.00 target gun. That is the reason why there is very little evidence of a Turkish gun having thousands of rounds fired through it.

Darryl
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THIS ! end of debate.
 
Figure out your purpose, then choose a firearm based on that.

I was talking to a guy on the trap field yesterday, he said he put 250,000 rounds through his gun, some parts along the way.

To get to a 100,000 rounds means you spent a lot of dollars to get there.

100,000 rounds is 4000 rounds of trap, say a round is $7 and a box of ammo is $10, that's $68K.

The cost of the gun is the least of your worries.
 
rmsg0040 said:
Figure out your purpose, then choose a firearm based on that.

I was talking to a guy on the trap field yesterday, he said he put 250,000 rounds through his gun, some parts along the way.

To get to a 100,000 rounds means you spent a lot of dollars to get there.

100,000 rounds is 4000 rounds of trap, say a round is $7 and a box of ammo is $10, that's $68K.

The cost of the gun is the least of your worries.
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So what kind of gun did this guy put 250000 rounds through?
 
While I'm no major competitor I do shoot alot. I have a Baikal that's seen well over 70 000 rounds and is still tight except the forend latch has worn
I had a semi auto Turkish gun go over 40 000 rounds and it needed 2 bolt locks and new springs

I have 4 huglus that keep adding to their round counts. Now that I use a wider variety of guns and moved into the city I don't get to really add up the rounds fired on individual guns but my huglu sxs 20ga is around 2000 or so my 410 sxs is around 1200. My lastest 12ga has only about 400 rounds thru it as it's still new. It'll likely see 100 rounds a week from now until good weather in spring. I don't like digging thru snow and slop for empties from my autos
On the other hand I've seen Tristar ou shoot loose in less than a flat of hunting loads. Some brands are built better and many brands are built to a price point.
I haven't seen any major issues with double guns from Churchill or huglu on the skeet field. I've seen many issues with Tristar and canucks
 
rmsg0040 said:
Figure out your purpose, then choose a firearm based on that.

I was talking to a guy on the trap field yesterday, he said he put 250,000 rounds through his gun, some parts along the way.

To get to a 100,000 rounds means you spent a lot of dollars to get there.

100,000 rounds is 4000 rounds of trap, say a round is $7 and a box of ammo is $10, that's $68K.

The cost of the gun is the least of your worries.
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This!

It's always surprising to me when people don't do the math. Same is true for hunting trips. Can't afford bismuth, for example, but fine with the rest of the expenses that add up to many times the cost of the ammo.
 
Ribstaylor said:
I keep hearing this claim. Got any videos or articles showing this as a fact? I would tend to agree you get what you pay for. But when it comes to this claim that Turkish O/U and doubles can't shoot the same round counts as non Turkish brands, I have yet to see actual proof.
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Proof that that à Khan Arms can shoot as much as a CG? You’ll be waiting a long time
 
This reminds me of the Norinco discussion. Probably a solid gun - but 1/2 the guys you show it to - and 1/2 the market you want to sell it to - are just going to politely roll their eyes. Same, I fear, with Turkish guns. Good gun or not, many will presume it's junk. Perception matters.
 
Rob! said:
This reminds me of the Norinco discussion. Probably a solid gun - but 1/2 the guys you show it to - and 1/2 the market you want to sell it to - are just going to politely roll their eyes. Same, I fear, with Turkish guns. Good gun or not, many will presume it's junk. Perception matters.
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Surely you've seen the sheer number of Turkish shotguns that have become available over the last handful of years. If nobody was buying them, they wouldn't be bringing them in in such number and variety.

Then again most people who don't shoot clays on the regular seem to lean towards pump actions and semi autos... And most of the guys I've met who DO love to shoot clays will make up the price difference in ammo and clay costs within a year or two, so you might have a point with the resale aspect. You're absolutely right that there will be lots of gun snobs rolling their eyes at your choice in firearms but picking a gun based on whether a gun snob will scoff at it seems like a really stupid way to pick a gun (and also #### those guys.)
 
The perception that Turkish guns are junk is not unfounded in many cases, not all of them are junk or course but enough have been to create the perception... hence the presumption. Maybe it's the same as when Asian built cars first hit North America, many of them had glaring problems but eventually the product was improved and proven through miles driven to the point where North American car companies had to up their game. Motorcycles are another example, foreign imports forced domestic manufacturers to improve their product. Competition isn't a bad thing for the consumer, maybe we will see Western gun manufacturers up their game to compete!
 
At one time Belgium guns were cheap junk. Then it was Italian guns were junk then it was the Spanish guns were junk. We as a group demand cheaper prices so the market sources cheap labour which led to turkey. There are some manufacturers there capable of building best grade guns we just don't want to pay for it yet. We want new guns for several hundred bucks and when the novelty of the newness wears off we want another new gun. We as a society are to blame for price point marketing.
It may hurt a companies reputation in the long haul of a few gun snobs but mass lots of made to order guns is what keeps companies in business no matter what company it is they all do it. Even Holland and Holland bought lesser named guns and finished them to some degree. I think the most glaring example is AyA. During the hunger years they made what they could for anyone willing to buy just like any other Spanish maker but AyA generally used better steels but they were lumped in with every other hardware store brand. It was those Sears and Roebuck like orders that kept them alive. They survived diarm and now make incredible hand made guns that rival the bests from anywhere. Yet there's still ppl out there that snub all Spanish guns.
Not everyone is a clay champion and not everyone wants a clay game gun. Some are happy with a pump that may be fired only a dozen times a year others want a ou or sxs and simply can't afford a big name gun. Turkey offers a product to suit those needs and they're selling alot of product
 
I bought a Canuck...same quality and better deal all around at less$ than the Mossberg I used to have. I do not plan on shooting 1000 rounds a year so no big deal to me. As shotguns are such simple devices I do not see a issue even if I did. Only complaint I have with "cheap" pump shotguns is the sloppy forestocks, they are made out of plastic and so fit is always loose, functions fine but not fitted like a $2000 gun obviously, so you get what you pay for I guess:shotgun:
 
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