TulAmmo .308 in Norc m305

Serp403

Serp403

New member
EE Expired
Rating - 100%
55   0   0
Location
Southern AB
Hey there, was asked to post this here for others:

I have no intention of ruffling any feathers, just posting my experience.

Photo References

I had bought a brick of 240 rounds of the .308 off of them, and while initially I had success, a few months later when i opened a new box, after about 20 rounds I had got a slight burn and flash of material to my face(Thankfully wearing my glasses). After carefully looking at the ammo I had fired, I realized that not only had most of the primers punch out many of the cases at the rim had cracked or separated. I have included some pics for reference. I had fired some brass cased .308 after those rounds without any issue, deformity or primer issues. I had emailed them about my concern, and the response sent:

Hello _, we are sorry to hear your unfortunate experience with our .308 but we had no complains about it, the opposite, as you can read review of it on CGN or YouTube, people like it very much, and its very popular caliber in the U.S. and Canada.The Tula Cartridge Works is one of the oldest and biggest Russian manufacturer and known in the world of small ammo. And we would to give you 10% off on your next order.
Click to expand...


I doubt I'll take them up on the offer, though.

Lot number on a box is in the photo reference, LOTNJ186-13 60 30-06
 
First, I'm glad you are okay.

Second, I am surprised to see the simply reply from the vendor. While they say there has been no complaints about it, what about YOUR complaint? Should it not warrant further investigation by them? I think so...

Hopefully no one else has any issue with the ammo.

Regards
Jay
 
Serp403 said:
After carefully looking at the ammo I had fired, I realized that not only had most of the primers punch out many of the cases at the rim had cracked or separated.
Click to expand...

I can't tell exactly what you mean by 'primers punch out' - were the primers pierced? or pushed out? I looked at the photos but I'm not sure what I'm looking at.

I only ask because I had primers pushed out in my m305 with excessive headspace. Have a look at this thread and I'm interested if your experience is similar. http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...rimers-pushed-out-a-bit-with-308-factory-ammo

I agree with some of the comments in the thread that the bolt face was likely not supporting the cartridge.

In my case it was steel cased MFS ammo, but the norinco ammo (that is 7.62NATO and not .308WIN) was fine. Excessive headspace in my situation was more apparent in fired .308 steel cased ammo than the 7.62NATO brass cased. Doesn't mean the .308 was out of spec though, in my opinion.

WS
 
Hey Jay, thanks for the concern. A good reminder to always wear your PPE.

Hey Winston,
I meant pushed out, thanks for clarifying. I had believed it to be my head spacing as well, but have since fired hundreds of rounds of anything you can think of, steel, or brass and have yet to come across the same issues in that gun. I had even bought a new spare bolt, ready to lap. Before i hadn't had the opportunity to try the same ammo in a non 305 until recently, my fathers savage 99c(Lever), which i took out this morning to try out some more of this ammo with. While I never had any gas coming at me, the primers did however react the same, they push out, quite similar to the ones out of the norc. In fact not a single primer stayed below the rim.
I'm no expert but I do still think there is something funny with the ammo. Seems strange that the primers are quite a bit larger than my domestic ammo, and yet still finds room to push out like that.
I apologize if my photos suck, tried to get good clear shots. But thanks for the input Winston, experience is always welcome.
 
Its all very interesting to me Serp, I'm no expert. Maybe this batch is on the small side for .308 (though within spec), and therefore on the long side for a Norc chamber in 7.62NATO? If you search for .308 vs 7.62NATO you find lots of information like this one: http://how-i-did-it.org/762vs308/chamber.html

It could be something other than dimensions if there is evidence of splitting or cracking, etc. Again, I'm not an expert and there are lots of knowledgeable guys on the forum who hopefully will chime in.

You might want to try some different ammo and have someone measure the fired cases for you just to get an idea of what your headspace is. I am not sure if Tactical Teacher still does this, or perhaps I think that YoMamma might? Let's see if they have some thoughts on the issue.

WS
 
I bought 500 Rds of 308 Tulammo from then. The shipping was fast from Ontario. Then I shot some from my Norinco 305. It seemed rather hot but did not bother with it too much. Then one round exploded and rather loud and the excess gas was vented through the magazine. My left hand was swollen for a week. I complained to Tulammo and they wanted pictures. So I went to the range today and shot two rds. I stood back and loaded one round in the chamber without magazine. The retrieved cases had flattened primers and one of them was punctured. Both primers were protruding from the case.
 
Reply from Tulammo.

Hello Vincent, thank you for your pictures. We emailed it to The Tula Cartridge Works and hope to get the explanations for this problem. As advertised, The Tula Cartridge Works. Russia, is one of the largest and oldest Russian, high quality, military ammo and firearms manufacturers. We are only the dealers and have no idea whats the reason for this problem. Mean time we can offer you maybe some discount on your future orders, for this or other calibers and let you know the response from the manufacturer.



Thank you.

Isaac.
 
From what you are describing, is sounds like signs of excessive pressures. Case Head separation and flattened/protruding primers are what reloaders typically look for if they don't have a chronograph to check velocities. I would definitely avoid shooting that ammo as it may get worse as the summer approaches. If the dealer or manufacturer won't take it back/exchange it. You may have to accept it as a lesson learned and just stay away from this stuff.
 
*sorry for the late reply/bump


I bought 500 Rds of 308 Tulammo from then. The shipping was fast from Ontario. Then I shot some from my Norinco 305. It seemed rather hot but did not bother with it too much. Then one round exploded and rather loud and the excess gas was vented through the magazine. My left hand was swollen for a week. I complained to Tulammo and they wanted pictures. So I went to the range today and shot two rds. I stood back and loaded one round in the chamber without magazine. The retrieved cases had flattened primers and one of them was punctured. Both primers were protruding from the case.

Reply from Tulammo.

Hello Vincent, thank you for your pictures. We emailed it to The Tula Cartridge Works and hope to get the explanations for this problem. As advertised, The Tula Cartridge Works. Russia, is one of the largest and oldest Russian, high quality, military ammo and firearms manufacturers. We are only the dealers and have no idea whats the reason for this problem. Mean time we can offer you maybe some discount on your future orders, for this or other calibers and let you know the response from the manufacturer.



Thank you.

Isaac.
Click to expand...

Yes you're describing my exact experience. showed a friend a week ago, and the first round blew the bottom of my 10 rnd mag off with a belch of fire.
that's also similar response i got, accept that they dint care for any pictures, or mention anything about getting the ammo looked at.

From what you are describing, is sounds like signs of excessive pressures. Case Head separation and flattened/protruding primers are what reloaders typically look for if they don't have a chronograph to check velocities. I would definitely avoid shooting that ammo as it may get worse as the summer approaches. If the dealer or manufacturer won't take it back/exchange it. You may have to accept it as a lesson learned and just stay away from this stuff.
Click to expand...
My thoughts exactly, lesson learned; until Tulammo addresses this directly with an explanation, no shooting of it for me.


I definitely do not recommend it for semi auto's, shot a few rounds out of my savage 99 lever without any noticed issues. that is likely how I'll deplete the unwanted ammo.

Thanks guys for mentioning your experiences, hopefully people will be cautious with the ammo if its new to them,
Cheers!
 
Last edited:
a person can have excessive headspace in 2 ways ,

one with the chamber cut too deep

two , with ammo that is undersize lengthwise ( in this case from the shoulder to the case head )

I would tear apart a couple unfired steel cased rounds that you had trouble with , and a couple unfired brass cased rounds that you didn't have trouble with . and by tear apart I mean remove the bullet and powder without damaging the case mouth .

I would then chamber each case and use shim stock to measure the clearance between the bolt face and case head . using the same rifle that the other rounds where originally fired in .

my guess is you will find more clearance between the boltface and case head on the same rounds you where having trouble with .
 
What a load of crap answer...

But they said its a very popular cartridge in the US and Canada so i guess everything is fine.
 
10% discount!!! I'd be firing an email back to them expressing my extreme dissatisfaction with the product and the incident and the "10% slap in the face" the incident could have turned out much worse that it did. I'd let them have it but that just me
 
MFS and TULA go no where near my semi auto .308/7.62 rifles (neither does American eagle red box)
I do have a few boxes of the Tula .308 I bought to try out in my ruger scout tho, if I have any problems, I'll report back with details.

as for MFS, it was hard on extractors like I've never experienced in all my years of playing with these rifles. Also, a friend had a squib round and near catastrophy while I was standing right beside him. Could have been a serious kaboom.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom