Turning belted cartridges into rimmed ones?

Thought I had read about a similar monster before. Called the 500 A-Square, it is a necked up and improved 460Wby.

Here is the link for load info. Diameter should be 0.510" per the BMG. There is data for other similar and larger cartridges on this site. Also, reloadersnest.com for even more info on supersized cannons.

http://www.accuratereloading.com/500as.html

Since you plan on using cast bullets, I would look at manf of BPCR barrels. They shoot very well and have the right groove/land set up for cast bullets. Most now use modern steels so there is little issue handling smokless powders pressures. Just get a diameter big enough around.

Green Mountain makes a bunch and could offer shorter lengths (????). You could also look at companies like Shiloh and those making other old style falling block rifles. A muzzle loader barrel of modern steel and size might also work (????).

I doubt the 54 and 57 cals will be made from steel strong enough for cannons. Their intent would be for black powder cartridges.

For simplicity, the 460Wby is dead easy to get barrels for but that is pretty 'small'. You can always get a BMG pipe and cut it down. Bevan King might be able to make one for you too.

I just can't imagine any human surviving the recoil from this thing. I hope you have forearms and wrists like POPEYE.

Ran the recoil numbers for 500gr, 100gr powder, 2000fps and a 4lbs HG -

171.3ft-lbs of recoil coming back at 52.5ft-sec

A 338 Mag (225gr, 75gr powder, 2900fps in a 9lbs rifle) is 34ft/lbs coming back at 15.6ft/sec. You are insane.

OUCH>>>>>>>
Jerry
 
In all honesty, and I don't mean this to discourage, but I'd say it is impossible to fire this behemoth. I don't say many things are impossible, but this in my mind is unless you make a 35lb handgun. What will happen is the handgun will cartwheel right back into the shooter's face, and a HELL of a lot of force as Jerry has suggested, literally enough to kill. It would almost be impossible to make a brace that would hold it as well for the test firing, as this gun would move even a 300lb lead sled, let alone getting a good grip on it.

Check this out, I'd guess this is on the order of 1/3 the power you have in mind... Looks like a T/C.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWCf_WELvyM
 
here is that clip again with slow mo.

One post listed this as the 600NE which is small by your standards.

Please note that whatever HG was used did not survive the shot. The 'top' sheared off hitting the shooter in the head. I think there was even a muzzle brake (certainly not big enough) but no luck.

Can a HG be made to shoot this thing? yes. Can it be made so a human will not die shooting it? yes. Is is simple? NO

You just need to build it for the African game stopper/BMG in terms of strength and recoil control.

A BMG rifle usually weighs around 25lbs so making a HG weigh 4 to 7lbs will increase alot of stress on the material (mostly the stock). If it is much heavier like 10lbs, it can be made strong enough but recoil goes way up to like 3 times a BMG rifle.

Since they usually equate shooting a well braked, heavy BMG rifle with full power 12ga slugs, three times that is not entirely insane given the monster HG that are in use today.

Also, there are BMG Carbines with 20" barrels (why? who knows). A bit of snooping into this tech will give some insight in what is needed for a HG.

Enjoy....

Jerry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J-rfE8-m-w&mode=related&search=
 
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As well, from the revolver perspective, bear in mind the gas discharge you will experience from the cylinder gap, I honestly don't know if you can safely fire a firearm with a cylinder gap that close to your hands and that much powder. It will certainly be hot on the mitts, if it's possible. I don't believe the .600NE revolver was ever more than a showpiece, I believe it also weighed on the order of 20lbs.
 
What will happen is the handgun will cartwheel right back into the shooter's face, and a HELL of a lot of force as Jerry has suggested, literally enough to kill.
Click to expand...
Excellent - I've always wanted to build a gun that would be just as painful to fire as it would be to get shot with one. :D

Well, I feared it'd come to this. After all a .44 Magnum Ruger Super Blackhawk's supposed to be a pretty big knucklebuster, and that's 'only' 20 grains of powder! :eek:

I'll have to design some kind of 'harness' or a stand for the pistol, perhaps a tripod mount with a pair of lugs along the handle, each attached to two braided steel cables leading into dogspikes sunk two feet into the ground. If that can't hold it, I don't know what else will.

Then I'll tie a string to the cylinder and one to the hammer. A long one. :)


As for being 'hot on the mitts' I'm one step ahead of you there! ;) I've designed a system that will push away some of the gases that head downward, toward your hands, and shunt them straight up. The cylinder I designed with a baffle near the centre that sticks out in the gap between frame and cylinder underneath the protruding barrel and shunts the gas away from the user's hands and out to the side. I would have liked to devise a system to seal off the gap entirely like the 1895 Tokarev revolver, but I'm not sure how to do that.

I don't think I'm going to bother with a muzzle brake or even porting if this is going to be fired in a tripod.

This is going to weigh a lot, considering I'm going to build it out of steel and make everything extra thick to stand up to hot loads. Pressure levels are going to be incredibly high, although at the moment I'm not sure how thick to make everything.

I'll have to design the single-shot carbine first and find out what kind of pressure this thing will achieve before I can think of the revolver.

- Dave.
 
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...I don't suppose I'm bringing up any revelation when I suggest, why not just make a monster carbine? ;) I'm sure you've thought about this, and know what you want, but you're basically building a carbine anyway with the barrel lengths you're talking, and it would solve 90% of your development problems, AND you'd actually be able to test the cartridge and put your expensive toy to work on game. Hell you could even put a folding stock on it and it's be like your monster pistol right there... :p
 
Here is a rough, rough, rough drawing of the cylinder-mounted gas baffle plate that I just did to more accurately illustrate the cylinder baffle plate that I just blasted off now to show it. The scale design doesn't fit on my scanner. :eek:

Oops, I was in such a hurry to finish it I misspelled 'drawing.' :redface: Oh well.

Harbringercylindercloseup.jpg



- Dave.
 
Well, I figured I'd build a monster carbine to test the loads. But the real thing I want to build is the completed revolver, inspired by that scene in Batman where Joker pulls that HUGE revolver out of his pants and blows the jet away in a single shot.

Yeah, I agree, I will be building a single-shot thingy, though, and there's not much to say except the design for that is very simple, more or less.

- Dave.
 
Dave L. said:
I'm going to build it out of steel and make everything extra thick to stand up to hot loads. Pressure levels are going to be incredibly high, although at the moment I'm not sure how thick to make everything.
Click to expand...

No offence, but do you have the slightest ability to do mechanical engineering? If I say "yield strength" and "ultimate tensile strength" or, say, "moment of inertia" or maybe "dislocation" and you don't know what those are, you'll very likely hurt yourself and/or someone nearby. As you may (or may not) know, "steel" comes in many, many flavours and matching capabilities.

If it survives the first shot, do you know if it will survive the tenth?

Have fun - just teach yourself something before you create an unusual-looking grenade.
 
I also hate to piss on anyones parade, but 6000 Ft/Lb is a lot of bonk for a rifle.
In a HG, its just nuts.
Keep in mind, a rifle of that power will weigh 8 or 9 lbs. It will bear against your shoulder, as well as two hands. And it will develop its velocity over a 24 or 26 inch barrel.

Your creation will probably wiegh about 5 or 6 lb if you truly want to call it a hand gun.
It will have to get up to speed in 12 inches, so that means the impulse on your wrist is that much sharper, and as it is either a revolver or a single shot, all the thrust comes at once, as opposed to a semi that speads out the impulse.
I mention the semi softening the recoil because a friend has a 50AE Desert Eagle, and even with hot loads, it is quite enjoyable to shoot.

Sorry man, it aint gonna happen the way you describe it.

too bad, I was looking forward to the video!
 
Dave L : What is the purpose of the " BAFFLE" at the front of the cylinder? I haven't seen anything like that on any other revolver, but then there isn't any in the size you propose..
 
*sigh*

Well, if this project's gotta get put on hold, I guess it's gotta go until later. I got accepted into the Mechanical Engineering program at Humber and George Brown, and I figured I might have the opportunity to build it at that point.

I'm gonna have to study up about this, then. But I'll remember everything you've told me, it'll be very helpful for the next crazy scheme... :D


Most of the .600 Nitro Express double rifles weighed at least over ten pounds and were carried by a gun-bearer while the hunter carried something else. To call this a handgun wouldn't be proper, I agree, well, I suppose it's not really a *hand* gun, more like a small cannon shaped like one. :)

BEARMAN said:
Dave L : What is the purpose of the " BAFFLE" at the front of the cylinder? I haven't seen anything like that on any other revolver, but then there isn't any in the size you propose..
Click to expand...
Course there is a purpose! That purpose is to make wendy cukier poop her pants. :).

The baffle is there to protect your hands from the hot gases that'll seep out from between the cylinder and the barrel when it's fired. It's a part of the cylinder and extends out underneath the barrel under the forcing cone, and turns with the cylinder as it rotates. It's probably not been seen on any other revolver because it wouldn't be necessary at the pressure levels they run on.

- Dave.
 
Here is a couple ideas which do not concern the load.

1. Concerns about proper indexing with low cylinder capacity.
- Enact a double stage indexer by using a longer throw and twin indexing teeth. (double the cylinder indexing notches).

2. Belted Cartridges? Make a jumbo Moon Clip. (3-4 shot .50-375Wtby anyone?)

3. People have issues about recoil? Make an optional attachable stock. And damned well have a Muzzle brake/porting...

4. Learn Metallurgy & Finite element analysis.
 
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