two questions about shooting my no 4.

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So I cleaned my no 4 properly for the first time, and there was a ton of crap in it. Bore foam three times, and then Butch's. Patches eventually came clean.
Went to the range today and 1st shot was about 8" high and 4" left(at 100 yds). I put it down to shooter error, and it took a few shots before I was able to get a decent group. I finished with an awesome group(you would'nt believe me if I told you) at 200 yds.
Could my bore be so rough that cleaning it throws the bullet 8" off? I've seen rifles shot a couple of inches off til they foul again, but not that much.
2nd question.
Why am I not getting good extraction/ejection? It won't throw cases free.
how do I know if my claw is set right? I just put a new spring in, and the ejector screw just clears the bolt and can't go any further without snagging the bolt.
Any advice?
 
You said that you've changed the spring, well change the extractor as well, it could be worn out. The ejector could also be worn out. Get a new ones and swap them.
 
Is there such thing as a "new" extractor?
I put the ejector screw in a drill and filed a little off the underside of the head.
It hits the rim, but the cases don't always fly right out.
There was a guy selling claws and springs on the EE a while back, I'll see if they're still there.
 
I have a dozen or more .303s ready to go to the range at just about any time and not ONE of them will "throw the cases out" if I cycle the bolt slowly.

Get a dummy round and put it in, cycle the action VERY slowly and LOOK and see what actually happens. After you have THAT down pat, do it again FAST and see the difference.

The Lee-Enfield Rifle is not like anything else ever made. The man who designed it was an absolute GENIUS at the rare art of throwing away parts that you don't need: simplification, pure and simple. The result is a rifle which will handle a century of military service with an absolute minimum amount of maintenance and spare parts.

As to the extractor, its function is to grab the rim of the cartridge and pull it out of the chamber. As the extractor brings the fired round OUT, it pushes the casing to the LEFT so that, as the casing is drawn backward with the bolt, the fired casing RUBS against the inside of the left-hand Body (receiver) rail. The FRICTION thus generated causes the casing to be tipped to the RIGHT..... and, as soon as the fired case gets all the way out of the chamber, angular momentum causes it to throw ITSELF out of the rifle.

MOMENTUM is a function of VELOCITY multiplied by MASS. The MASS remains CONSTANT, so the Angular Momentum you need is governed by the VELOCITY of the withdrawal. Too slow means not enough Angular Momentum to throw the case out.

The EJECTOR is just a screw in the rail of the Body, designed to tip the empty out if something ELSE goes wrong. Ejectors don't wear out because, in normal sevice, they are NOT USED in a Lee-Enfield Rifle.

But you have a problem, so let's trouble-shoot it.

Something my Dad taught me, many, many years ago, back when I was just starting to mess around with old guns and old motorcycles, made (and still makes) a lot of sense.

"Analyse the problem," he said, "and then start checking the parts which are involved, starting with the CHEAPEST PART."

So let's look at your rifle.
The Bolt is worth $40 (fourth-hand and 70 years old)
The Body is worth at least another $40 (new cost, today, about $350)
Extractor is worth $10 (if you can find one)
Extractor Spring is worth $4.50 (if you can find one)
Ejector Screw is worth $5 (if you can find one)
FIRED CASING sells for 60 cents new and goes downhill fast from there: 30 cents when you bring it out after the first firing.

What kind of ammunition are you using?
Are the casings made to MILITARY SPECS or are they something that SAAMI cooked up because those stupid Brits can't be trusted to read a micrometer? Remember here that the Micrometer was INVENTED in Britain, along with most of the Industrial Age!

If the Rim of the casing is not wide enough, the Extractor CAN'T PUSH IT OVER FAR ENOUGH to solidly contact the left-hand receiver rail against which it works to DEVELOP that Angular Momentum which is supposed to toss the casing free.

The same thing can happen if the base of the casing is UNDERSIZED. This is more likely to occur than a problem from the Rim because the Extractor is actually designed to CLEAR the Rim. The Extractor only bears against the Rim when the BASE of the casing is too narrow for it to grab and push against.

You can get exactly the same situation with some brands of ammunition which have a GROOVE at the base of the casing, right where the Extractor grabs the brass. What happens is that the Extractor drops into this groove, does not push the case far enough or hard enough.... and the fired case doesn't pop out the way it should.

Original British (and Canadian) .303" Service ammunition DOES NOT HAVE a base groove, for exactly this reason!

If an Extractor does not grab the casing properly and the Spring is working (you can feel it work, believe me) properly, it IS possible to grind or polish-out the INSIDE of the curved arm of the Extractor to permit the CLAW to work from a position farther inward. Be very careful here because, should the Extractor be polished or ground TOO FAR, it will actually IMPEDE the loading of the next round, should it not just pop straight up into position to feed, the way it ought to.

Anyway, friend, chances are about 90% that any problems with Extraction and Ejection will be caused by:
1. working the action too slowly
2. out-of-spec ammunition.

Hope this helps.
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As to your apparent keyholing problem, I ask again: what type of ammunition are you shooting??????? Lee-Enfield rifles do NOT like boat-tailed bullets: they ALWAYS shoot their best with a FLATBASE bullet of .312" diameter or larger, depending upon the rifle.
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Milsurps are often badly fouled.
One 1899 made 6.5mm Swede had a full two thou. build-up in the throat when I started with it. It sprayed bullets and flattened primers with start loads. Hard bolt lift too. Dozens of alternating brake cleaner/CR10 applications over days were needed before the rod would pull evenly from end to end. Cupro-nickle and carbon do not move out easily.

That one ended up a MOA shooter.

Not surprising that your LE needed a few rounds to settle back into it's groove after the most thorough cleaning it's likely ever known.
Yes, I would believe you on that 200yd burner group ... some of these old girls really shoot.
Sounds like you've got yourself one of 'em.
 
One minor point often neglected. Swab your bore befor a shoot in case you have crap or too much oil in it and always fire a couple of rounds down range befor you get serious about the target. A cold barrel will shoot different from a warm barrel. Ignore that first round of the day.
Besides, If you are hung over, on the first shot you will always flinch.
 
Issue SAA usually came in boxes of 48. You were issued 12 rounds for a 10-round target.

That gave you one WARMER, 10 for SCORE and a SIGHTER if you needed one; it generally was used to confirm your sights or wind or something, was not always used. You had to CALL a Sighter before you fired it. The WARMER was regarded as necessary. If you had DRIED your bore properly (as was mandatory), generally it was all that was needed at this point. MOST guys then would fire their SIGHTER or else save it for after the first scoring round, if it was too far from the Bull, or save it longer in case of a wind shift.

And that meant that you could get four targets from a box of rounds.

Alternately, you could load up ONE pan for a Lewis Gun and still have a Dismounting Tool for your pocket; the entire gun could be stripped with a live round.

So now you know WHY.
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Thanks guys, awesome info.
I understand about not babying the action, did'nt realise how important it is for the case to be pushed hard to the left by the claw. I will look into that and maybe relieve the inside of the claw where it bears on the bolt head if neccessary.
The bullets were .312 boat tail hp's(did'nt want to use boat tails, but I'm getting awesome groups)
Maybe there was a thread from a cleaning patch(I use twobyfour) in the bore or something that made the 1st shot wobble a bit, but the rifle certainly liked the bulets once the barrel got fouled a little.
 
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