Hi all, I recently managed to pick up a couple of guns I've wanted for my collection for many years and thought I'd share. I'd say most everyone here is going to be familiar with the French use of the Spanish Ruby pistols in WW1.... what's a lot less well known is that they also bought a large number of revolvers in 8 x 27mm from the Eibar gun trade at the same time. There tends to be a lot more variance in them than the Rubys, although S&W M&P clones predominate - the most common are by Orbea Hermanos, but I've seen almost identical guns from Trocaola Aramzabal y Cia and Garate y Anitua (although Garate also made some nasty looking Colt clones at the same time, oddly). There are also the aforementioned Colt knock-offs, and some truly nasty Pieper clones.
They were collectively known as the "Revolver 1892 Espagnol", or Spanish 92 revolver, from their country of origin and the fact that they shoot the standard M1892 round. I don't know that the French bothered distinguishing between the various manufacturers as I wouldn't be surprised to find that parts weren't interchangeable even between guns from the same manufacturer anyways. I suspect that if they broke they were probably just discarded rather than repaired. Some, though not all, were marked with an acceptance proof that looks more like a five pointed asterisk than the star normally found on Rubies. Apparently they were so desperate for handguns at the front they eventually only tested a few guns out of every lot of 1000 and often skipped marking them.
I first became aware of these when I saw a few Orbeas in Les Invalides, the French Army Museum, in 2009, and I've been fascinated by them ever since. Interestingly Les Invalides has more of these than Rubies on display from what I could tell. They seem to be really uncommon here in Canada, and the fact that they're not caliber marked and look like .32s makes importing them tricky. I finally managed to find not one, but two, in the last couple months so of course I had to snap them up!
The first was at the recent Switzer auction, which I won cheap at $125, much to my pleasure! It's a Trocaola S&W clone, although if you look inside the lockwork is quite simplified and looks more like a Colt (Forgotten Weapons has a good technical write up on them). It does have a few improvements over Smiths of the era, namely a wide hammer spur and rear sight which seem much more practical for combat shooting. The overall workmanship is NOT S&W good, but it's actually pretty decent. The cylinder release is stiff but the trigger and rotation are quite nice. The metal is notably softer you'd like to see for firearms, with a couple of noticeable dings in the frame, but lockup is tight and the 8 x 27mm is hardly a magnum and I'd have no qualms about shooting it. In fact in some ways I like this thing better than my Mle.1892.
Now, if the Trocaola is one of the better Spanish revolvers used by the French, this next one is probably the worst. It's unknown exactly who made them, but they're basically a knock-off of a Pieper 1889, marked "Mle 1915" and with AE and a star. This is sometimes alleged to be a French acceptance mark ("Arme Etranger") but most really knowledgeable collectors think it's a manufacturers mark as no other foreign-made French arms seem to have it. This thing is roughly made, has a terrible trigger and lots of wobble in the lock up and I would for sure NOT shoot it. Interestingly enough the French apparently gave lots of these to Romania once they entered the war, so they may have felt the same way. I bought this from Joe Salter for substantially more than the Trocaola (in fact I probably overpaid), but I figure I did good enough on that to make up for it. Interestingly mine seems to have been converted to some .38 caliber (probably either .38 S&W or .38 Long Colt, depending on where and one it was done) in spite of still being stamped 8 m/m. Others have been found like that as well. It's too bad, I'd prefer one still in 8mm, but I figure the chances of finding another are pretty slim so I'll live with it!
My family of WW1 French service pistols - unfortunately lacking a Ruby for obvious reasons:
Interestingly enough the French didn't totally ditch the Spanish 92s following the war, there's a fairly well known picture of a Milice officer from the WW2 era holding a S&W clone. I even have a Garate Cordero revolver in 8mm which is generally believed to have been made for a French police department (it's not known which) in the 20s. The difference in quality peacetime makes is immediately apparent, as it's a very well made copy of a Colt Police Positive Special... enough so that you'd probably mistake it for a real Colt if it wasn't for the markings or lanyard ring.
They were collectively known as the "Revolver 1892 Espagnol", or Spanish 92 revolver, from their country of origin and the fact that they shoot the standard M1892 round. I don't know that the French bothered distinguishing between the various manufacturers as I wouldn't be surprised to find that parts weren't interchangeable even between guns from the same manufacturer anyways. I suspect that if they broke they were probably just discarded rather than repaired. Some, though not all, were marked with an acceptance proof that looks more like a five pointed asterisk than the star normally found on Rubies. Apparently they were so desperate for handguns at the front they eventually only tested a few guns out of every lot of 1000 and often skipped marking them.
I first became aware of these when I saw a few Orbeas in Les Invalides, the French Army Museum, in 2009, and I've been fascinated by them ever since. Interestingly Les Invalides has more of these than Rubies on display from what I could tell. They seem to be really uncommon here in Canada, and the fact that they're not caliber marked and look like .32s makes importing them tricky. I finally managed to find not one, but two, in the last couple months so of course I had to snap them up!
The first was at the recent Switzer auction, which I won cheap at $125, much to my pleasure! It's a Trocaola S&W clone, although if you look inside the lockwork is quite simplified and looks more like a Colt (Forgotten Weapons has a good technical write up on them). It does have a few improvements over Smiths of the era, namely a wide hammer spur and rear sight which seem much more practical for combat shooting. The overall workmanship is NOT S&W good, but it's actually pretty decent. The cylinder release is stiff but the trigger and rotation are quite nice. The metal is notably softer you'd like to see for firearms, with a couple of noticeable dings in the frame, but lockup is tight and the 8 x 27mm is hardly a magnum and I'd have no qualms about shooting it. In fact in some ways I like this thing better than my Mle.1892.
Now, if the Trocaola is one of the better Spanish revolvers used by the French, this next one is probably the worst. It's unknown exactly who made them, but they're basically a knock-off of a Pieper 1889, marked "Mle 1915" and with AE and a star. This is sometimes alleged to be a French acceptance mark ("Arme Etranger") but most really knowledgeable collectors think it's a manufacturers mark as no other foreign-made French arms seem to have it. This thing is roughly made, has a terrible trigger and lots of wobble in the lock up and I would for sure NOT shoot it. Interestingly enough the French apparently gave lots of these to Romania once they entered the war, so they may have felt the same way. I bought this from Joe Salter for substantially more than the Trocaola (in fact I probably overpaid), but I figure I did good enough on that to make up for it. Interestingly mine seems to have been converted to some .38 caliber (probably either .38 S&W or .38 Long Colt, depending on where and one it was done) in spite of still being stamped 8 m/m. Others have been found like that as well. It's too bad, I'd prefer one still in 8mm, but I figure the chances of finding another are pretty slim so I'll live with it!
My family of WW1 French service pistols - unfortunately lacking a Ruby for obvious reasons:
Interestingly enough the French didn't totally ditch the Spanish 92s following the war, there's a fairly well known picture of a Milice officer from the WW2 era holding a S&W clone. I even have a Garate Cordero revolver in 8mm which is generally believed to have been made for a French police department (it's not known which) in the 20s. The difference in quality peacetime makes is immediately apparent, as it's a very well made copy of a Colt Police Positive Special... enough so that you'd probably mistake it for a real Colt if it wasn't for the markings or lanyard ring.
