UN markings on Milsurp rifles

Deltasilver

Deltasilver

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There has been some discussion about The “DE09 UA” marking found stamped on the receivers of the SVT-40 rifles currently on offer from Tradeex.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=411298&page=5

If my Google-fu hasn’t let me down, this is an example of the “International Tracing Instrument” which is mentioned in Section 9 of Resolution No 62/47 (October 20, 2008) of the United Nations General Assembly. The link is below.

http://www.iansa.org/un/documents/SALW_1com08.pdf

There has been lots of guessing about what the letters and numbers mean, the most common guess of course being that the DE is indicating “Deutschland”.

Do we have anyone hiding in the CGN crowd who can say for sure? Is there a list of codes by country/lot/model etc? Are we going to be seeing this occur on all future imported Military Surplus firearms – or on internationally manufactured modern firearms for that matter?

Edit: http://www.un.org/events/smallarms2006/pdf/international_instrument.pdf

Section III fills in the blanks.

RangeRover said:
With the latest deferral, one year more (at least) before markings are mandatory on firearms imported into, or manufactured in Canada. (if I'm reading this recently-posted article off the Government of Canada site correctly...

Regulations Amending the Firearms Marking Regulations
http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p2/2009/2009-12-09/html/sor-dors313-eng.html
Click to expand...

Scroll down to the part called "Executive Summary". This is where the bureaucratic speak ends and the plain language begins.
Thanks RangeRover

Arghhh. More meddling. Just what we need. :eek:
 
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"Are we going to be seeing this occur on all future imported Military Surplus firearms – or on internationally manufactured modern firearms for that matter? "

Yes, every country that signed the UN resolutions is marking or will mark the firearms manufactured or transiting through their territory!
 
What effect will this have on the value of the "marked" milsurps? Having it on new firearms is one thing, but defacing milsurps just ain't right!

George
 
- Markings are very small, so I do not think value will be affected greatly. Much smaller than the old British commercial proofmarks applied on Enfields imported years ago.

- Old imports of the M44's do not have the UN markings, but the new batch coming in the next few months will probably have them.
 
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Imagine of you import a full stock Ross rifle and it gets that, or a dryse needle gun.... Oh that will look nice.
 
It blows. You want to know where the guns that fuel wars guns come from? I'll give the UN a list: U.S.A., China, N. Korea, Isreal, Austria, Germany, Iran, Russia, all of the former soviet republics (why not, they didn't pay for them) - I could go on, but it would be a little easier to name the ones that don't.
Tell me again what the UN has done for the developing world in the last 30 years? Help Somalia- nope. Sudan- nope. Tibet- nope. Chechyna- nope. Congo- nope. Palestine- nope. Iraq- (they considered it an illeagle war) nope.
Basicaly, it's a bully club. If you belong to the club, and have veto rights, you do what you want. It legitimizes actions that would be an affront to "world peace" (a ridiculous phrase) should those actions come from a smaller member or a non-member. These gun markings are an attempt to tattle on less sophisticated world members that would interfere in the big bully countries meddling. Nothing more. A kick in the kibbles for collectors, oops I mean target shooters! That wasn't a status change, I swear!:kickInTheNuts:
 
5440fight said:
It blows. You want to know where the guns that fuel wars guns come from? I'll give the UN a list: U.S.A., China, N. Korea, Isreal, Austria, Germany, Iran, Russia, all of the former soviet republics (why not, they didn't pay for them) - I could go on, but it would be a little easier to name the ones that don't.
Tell me again what the UN has done for the developing world in the last 30 years? Help Somalia- nope. Sudan- nope. Tibet- nope. Chechyna- nope. Congo- nope. Palestine- nope. Iraq- (they considered it an illeagle war) nope.
Basicaly, it's a bully club. If you belong to the club, and have veto rights, you do what you want. It legitimizes actions that would be an affront to "world peace" (a ridiculous phrase) should those actions come from a smaller member or a non-member. These gun markings are an attempt to tattle on less sophisticated world members that would interfere in the big bully countries meddling. Nothing more. A kick in the kibbles for collectors, oops I mean target shooters! That wasn't a status change, I swear!:kickInTheNuts:
Click to expand...

:agree:
 
glang1 said:
What effect will this have on the value of the "marked" milsurps? Having it on new firearms is one thing, but defacing milsurps just ain't right!

George
Click to expand...

Like Talquin said, a minty Ross which suddenly acquired this mark might suffer but does it really detract from the "value" of one of the refurbished Ukrainian rifles we have become so used to seeing? 90% of any of the Recent Russian offerings have the [/] and at least one force matched component or something painted black.

In the case of the SKS rifle vendors have simply modified their price schedule to reflect the desirability or not of silver bolts, black bolts, hardwood, laminate etc.

Century has been stamping their import mark on everything they bring in for years and we simply accept those markings. "Import marked on barrel". "Marked CEI". All of the East German stuff I've seen out of P&S had that horrible CEI stamp on it and we never even blinked.

IMHO I think it just adds to the history of the rifle. A Russian SVT-40 refurbished and stored in the Ukraine, imported through Germany and sold to us in Canada. Kinda like stamps on a passport.
 
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Deltasilver said:
Like Talquin said, a minty Ross which suddenly acquired this mark might suffer but does it really detract from the "value" of one of the refurbished Ukrainian rifles we have become so used to seeing? 90% of any of the Recent Russian offerings have the [/] and at least one force matched component or something painted black.

In the case of the SKS rifle vendors have simply modified their price schedule to reflect the desirability or not of silver bolts, black bolts, hardwood, laminate etc.

Century has been stamping their import mark on everything they bring in for years and we simply accept those markings. "Import marked on barrel". "Marked CEI". All of the East German stuff I've seen out of P&S had that horrible CEI stamp on it and we never even blinked.

IMHO I think it just adds to the history of the rifle. A Russian SVT-40 refurbished and stored in the Ukraine, imported through Germany and sold to us in Canada. Kinda like stamps on a passport.
Click to expand...

So, what rifles with UN markings are you trying to sell?:cool: Just kidding.
 
5440fight said:
So, what rifles with UN markings are you trying to sell?:cool: Just kidding.
Click to expand...

LOL! That's funny, 'cause I don't think you're all that far off. We've made enough of a fuss that it will probably influence folks away from the UN marked stuff - and non marked "collector" pieces will get a bit of a boost for a while.

The question for the next post I guess is "What makes a collectible rifle collectible?" Can an already re-worked, re-furbished electro-penciled firearm whose only remaining character comes from being stacked ten deep on a pallet in a Eastern European warehouse for 40 years really be considered collectible?

EDIT: And there it is. http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=422333
 
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Deltasilver said:
Like Talquin said, a minty Ross which suddenly acquired this mark might suffer but does it really detract from the "value" of one of the refurbished Ukrainian rifles we have become so used to seeing? 90% of any of the Recent Russian offerings have the [/] and at least one force matched component or something painted black.

In the case of the SKS rifle vendors have simply modified their price schedule to reflect the desirability or not of silver bolts, black bolts, hardwood, laminate etc.

Century has been stamping their import mark on everything they bring in for years and we simply accept those markings. "Import marked on barrel". "Marked CEI". All of the East German stuff I've seen out of P&S had that horrible CEI stamp on it and we never even blinked.

IMHO I think it just adds to the history of the rifle. A Russian SVT-40 refurbished and stored in the Ukraine, imported through Germany and sold to us in Canada. Kinda like stamps on a passport.
Click to expand...


Ahhhh.............I do believe the Importer's stamp for Century is CAI not CEI.
 
So now I'm wondering, would it be illegal to remove this UN mandated mark? How permanent is it? Heavily stamped or just lightly engraved? What is the purpose of this mark anyway? Isn't it already well know who makes guns?
 
glang1 said:
So now I'm wondering, would it be illegal to remove this UN mandated mark? How permanent is it? Heavily stamped or just lightly engraved? What is the purpose of this mark anyway? Isn't it already well know who makes guns?
Click to expand...

I think the idea is to be able to track international movement of each firearm. Since the idea was that every time a firearm enters a country, it is stamped with the countries mark. I see it as an international registry, and like our registry, its full of false hope and is a "feel good" solution for the UN to make them feel like they are doing something good to stop crime/war.

As for removing the marks, Since Canada still has not made it law, I would think it would be fine (don't take my word for it). But if/when Canada declares it law, it will be a major offense to "tamper" with the marks.
 
glang1 said:
So now I'm wondering, would it be illegal to remove this UN mandated mark? How permanent is it? Heavily stamped or just lightly engraved? What is the purpose of this mark anyway? Isn't it already well know who makes guns?
Click to expand...

Have a gander at the SVT thread linked in my OP. There are some good pics of the stamps. I don't think you could remove them without doing a fair ammount of damage to the finish on the top of the receiver. Learn to love them as part of the firearm's "been there, done that" charm.

Also I linked the "clear language" summary at the bottom of the OP. It's laid out pretty clearly. UN touchy-feelgood nonsense, nothing more. However as Canada is a signatory we're gonna have to deal with it.
 
DE09 UA marking also on TT33

I received my TT-33 this week. Upon inspection I noticed the DE09 UA mark. I was going to start a thread but I found this one already going.
Are all the surplus coming marked like this now??:confused:
 
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