Uncrimped vs Crimped

[Crazy.kayaker]

Made up some ammo as follow
150 Gr. Nosler Balistic Tip
47 Gr. Varget
Winchester Primer
Federal Brass (gun likes federal bullets more then winchester so I have the brass)

At 25 plus yards I get .5 inch groupings. 75-100 I get some wacked out groupings such as a 100 degree arc about 3 inches out from the center. It's not my shooting as I went out next day and fired off a few rounds of factory and they grouped .5 inch at 100 yards. So should I try rebuilding test loads with the bullets and crimp them as the only thing I can think is the bullets leaving the brass wrong. My other loads are all made in Remington brass and winchester brass is scarcer then Hens Teeth. A little help please.

CK

 

[joe-nwt]

Groups at 25yds don't really mean much. Crimping usually helps more with slow burning powders but don't let that stop you from trying it. Do your bullets seem to be held firmly by the case neck? Try pushing a loaded round against a hard surface such as your bench. The OAL length should not change.

Is this your first attempt at reloading? Lots of things to try. OAL is one. Despite what others say here, some guns do not like Varget! Perhaps another powder is in order.

 

[Crazy.kayaker]

Groups at 25yds don't really mean much. Crimping usually helps more with slow burning powders but don't let that stop you from trying it. Do your bullets seem to be held firmly by the case neck? Try pushing a loaded round against a hard surface such as your bench. The OAL length should not change.

Is this your first attempt at reloading? Lots of things to try. OAL is one. Despite what others say here, some guns do not like Varget! Perhaps another powder is in order.

I'll make up a load of IMR 4895 or something similar. I'll try crimping a few loads too and see if that makes much difference. I'm new to loading but my test loads didn't behave anything like these rounds and I'll try our seeing if the bullet is seated frimly but I'm pretty sure they are. OAL is about .001 of each other. I can't tell the difference except when I use my digital caliper. I'm also wondering if it doesn't like that spacific bullet. Anyone have that problem where their gun likes a different bullets better?

 

[curtmg]

Did you try a few different loads, or just the one? I don't go out testing, unless I have at least 5 different loads, usually in .5gr increments. Typically I make 3 of each load (for 300WM, 5 for 22-250), and shoot groups, trying to find the best one. Although I'm considering starting to make 4 (6 for the 22-250), and then taking the worst one out. I'm thinking of doing this, as it takes the biggest ??? out of the equation a little bit (that ??? being my shooting ), I'm trying to find the best load, not prove how well I do or do not shoot.
What I'm saying is, it's entirely possible varget IS the right powder for the gun, but maybe not that exact load.
Also, except for getting on paper, or setting up the scope, I don't bother shooting 25y groups. 100y is where I want to be, or longer.

 

[Crazy.kayaker]

Did you try a few different loads, or just the one? I don't go out testing, unless I have at least 5 different loads, usually in .5gr increments. Typically I make 3 of each load (for 300WM, 5 for 22-250), and shoot groups, trying to find the best one. Although I'm considering starting to make 4 (6 for the 22-250), and then taking the worst one out. I'm thinking of doing this, as it takes the biggest ??? out of the equation a little bit (that ??? being my shooting ), I'm trying to find the best load, not prove how well I do or do not shoot.
What I'm saying is, it's entirely possible varget IS the right powder for the gun, but maybe not that exact load.
Also, except for getting on paper, or setting up the scope, I don't bother shooting 25y groups. 100y is where I want to be, or longer.

I make my loads every .5 grains when I make test loads and I make between 3 and 5 rounds of each depending on the amount of powder I have on hand plus number of bullets left. Also if I find two loads are nearly the same I'll remake some in .1 difference between the two loads as I had to do that with my 150 grain Hornady HP which is my plinking round. After all that I picked the grouping that was the most accurate at 50 yards (test range with open sights for me) with my test loads it was the 47 grains. Max powder load but now I'm thinking I have to go back and make loads up all over again. Better to spend the time making the best load then spend the time looking for the injured animal.

I have the Lymans Latest reloading manual. Interesting read if not mind numbing.

If I'm missing a step let me know.

 

[joe-nwt]

Ballistic Tips usually shoot well out of most guns. But you may have a gun that does not like them.

Are you shooting with open sights at 100? Can you do .5 at 100 consistantly with factory?

 

[Crazy.kayaker]

Ballistic Tips usually shoot well out of most guns. But you may have a gun that does not like them.

Are you shooting with open sights at 100? Can you do .5 at 100 consistantly with factory?

I usually get about a .75-1.5 with the odd 2+ inch grouping open at 100 I mounted my tasco scope (fixed it) so I wasn't open this trip out. With this ammo I was getting a 6" wide arch 100 degrees across the top of the paper. and it wasn't random hits either there was a patturn.

 

[rishu_pepper]

Crimping is for big bores (375 and up) or handgun cartridges. Not needed for your 308.

Some bullets just don't shoot well in some guns, it happens a lot, especially in factory rifles. Try another bullet..? Accubonds usually shoot well.

 

[joe-nwt]

I usually get about a .75-1.5 with the odd 2+ inch grouping open at 100 I mounted my tasco scope (fixed it) so I wasn't open this trip out. With this ammo I was getting a 6" wide arch 100 degrees across the top of the paper. and it wasn't random hits either there was a patturn.

A "pattern" usually indicates scope mount issues, do you know what parallax is? Simply put, if you do not have your eye in the exact same position behind the scope for each shot, the crosshairs will move in relation to the target. Less expensive scopes exhibit more parallax that better quality scopes.

When you say you have an arc-like pattern, this might be what is going on. Your head has to be held in exactly the same position each time, sliding your cheek up or down the stock will change the point of impact. Although it seems strange that you can shoot factory loads OK, are you nervous at all about shooting your own handloads? No flinching?

Reason I'm asking is, in my experience ammo problems usually produce "random" not "pattern".

 

[.Ben]

colud be the OAL could be the bullets could be the load could be the powder....try some adjustments....also as someone said 25 yards with a rifle doesnt help much....alot of times i find i get better groups at 50 yards then i do at 25

 

[Crazy.kayaker]

When you say you have an arc-like pattern, this might be what is going on. Your head has to be held in exactly the same position each time, sliding your cheek up or down the stock will change the point of impact. Although it seems strange that you can shoot factory loads OK, are you nervous at all about shooting your own handloads? No flinching?

Reason I'm asking is, in my experience ammo problems usually produce "random" not "pattern".

My hand loads create the arch but factory loads don't. I know I mentioned that before so I'm more inclined to say somewhere my hand load got messed up then bad scope mount. How do you mount a scope wrong? I have a weaver base that has notches the little bolt slides though to tighted up. I'm not much of an optic guy I like open but I'm a better shot at 100+ with a scope so I have one.

 

[joe-nwt]

My hand loads create the arch but factory loads don't. I know I mentioned that before so I'm more inclined to say somewhere my hand load got messed up then bad scope mount. How do you mount a scope wrong? I have a weaver base that has notches the little bolt slides though to tighted up. I'm not much of an optic guy I like open but I'm a better shot at 100+ with a scope so I have one.

Well I kinda started with one idea and ended with another. I guess if you can shoot factory well then the scope mount is not the issue.

I still stand behind my statement that ammo problems produce "random". Have you tried more handloads? Any chance your "pattern" was a fluke? The fact that your handloads print 3 inches from a center established with factory means nothing. Your handloads will have their own center. It's the pattern thing that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Crimping improves consistency which means less "random" not "pattern".