Underhammer Buggy Rifle

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Thought I'd post a couple of pics of this little gem. Would you believe I paid $80 for this, and it shoots better than most of the other stuff I own!!
This has got to be the ultimate in simplicity for a gun design.

BuggyGun1.jpg


It has a 21" barrel, with an overall length of 37"; nice and handy, and at about 5lbs, an easy carry and a quick lift to the shoulder. It's .45 cal, (uses .445 roundball & .015 Ox Yoke patch).

BuggyGun2.jpg


Only issue I've ever had is finding a proper-length/size nipple for it. I'm still looking for a correct one. I do believe it's metric, but I'd need to recheck it.

My knowledge on the manufacturer is a bit sketchy, but I was told they were sold by Numrich many years ago......no idea who might of made them.
I'd appreciate any background info that someone might have, or any source of spare-parts (in particular, some spare nipples).

BuggyGun3.jpg
 
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Looks like the ones built, or sold under the Hopkins and Allen - High Standard banner in the 70's.
TOTW should be able to find a nipple to fit. A local gunshop near here has a small tackle box full of nipples in various sizes too.
 
take a piece of hardwood dowel with a point on the end (like a pencil) and screw that into the nipple hole and obviously unscrew it. That allows you to measure the thread pitch with a thread guage. The diameter will probably be a little larger than the wood comes out; at a guess .005" or so larger.

cheers mooncoon
 
Is the nipple too short ?
If it's metric, it's probably 6x1mm, if it's SAE and 1/4 X28 then you might want to use the TC Patriot/ Cherokee nipples, they are tapered and would hold the cap on ?
I'll track down bellydancer he has the same rifle, maybe he might know more.
Cheers nessy.
 
According to the Track website, Numrich used 1/4-32 nipples. They also have 1/4-32 nipples specifically intended for underhammer guns. This can be important - standard nipples are intended to fit a drum or a bolster, and their shanks are fairly short. IF the nipple hole in an underhammer barrel is drilled full diameter right through, you want a nipple with a shank long enough to reach all the way through the barrel wall.
 
nessy357 said:
Is the nipple too short ?
Click to expand...

Funny enough, the nipple in it when I bought it was too long.....
The hammer would hit it on an angle, (i.e. not perfectly horizontal to the top of the nipple) and most of the POP of the cap would not be directed down the nipple channel, but out to the side. After I shortened it, it worked a little better, but now it's almost too short with the high non-threaded portion at the bottom of the nipple.
I'm sure these rifles take a rather unique nipple from those I'm used to working with.


nessy357 said:
I'll track down bellydancer he has the same rifle, maybe he might know more.
Cheers nessy.
Click to expand...

Thanks! Any help getting this problem resolved would be appreciated.
 
Nipple pics.....must be cold out

Here are a couple of pics of the issue;
Note in the first pic, the hammer still does not sit perpendicular to the top of the nipple even after shortening; I was experiencing major blowby, and consistant misfires as a result. Now, after some mods it's better....but still not ideal.

hammer2.jpg


Next, you can see how short I had to make the nipple, and how a portion of the wrench cam (above the threads) had to be removed to prevent the hammer from hitting it. The nipple lips also still sit at an angle, to keep as much of the caps energy going down the nipple channel as possible. Not the way it should be, for sure.

hammer3.jpg


The nipple thread length appears correct, (judging by thread length on barrel sleeve), but portion between nipple and threads (wrench cam) appears way too thick for this application. I've looked high & low for a local supplier of the proper nipple, but I came up with zip.

hammer4.jpg
 
The nipple could be altered by extending the wrench flats closer toward the bottom of the nipple, leaving a thinner flange to secure the flash cup. The tubular part of the nipple could then be extended further down the body, into the area where the wrench flats are. What you want to do is make a nipple that is shorter from the barrel out, but that still has enough area for the wrench to engage, and a long enough tube for the cap to be seated. Nipples are hardened, of course, so you might have to anneal, alter, and then reharden.
 
I think I have a couple nipples left. I had the pistol and buggy version of this rifle once. PM me your address and I'll send em to you if I can find them. I believe they are over-sized with the size marked on them. Very important you have the right nipple in with the right threads... don't ask me how I know:redface:
 
Underhammers

Weapontech

My lady bought an 'as-new' .36 Hopkins & Allen underhammer 'Boot Pistol' off this site and fired it last night for the first time - she loves it! Same seller had a rifle or two of the same design and I think I shoulda jumped on one for myself.

They are the epitome of simplicity in gun design and it makes you appreciate how easy it would be to make one. In fact, I once saw an article in an old NRA 'Rifleman' on how to do just that.
Of course you'd be breaking the law, but in the event .....

Now she wants me to make her a loading stand for it like we use for our cap & ball revolvers. My pleasure - just glad to have her shooting with me.
You ever wanna sell it, I'm interested - for her.

Todd
 
Sharps '63 said:
...They are the epitome of simplicity in gun design and it makes you appreciate how easy it would be to make one. In fact, I once saw an article in an old NRA 'Rifleman' on how to do just that.
Of course you'd be breaking the law, but in the event .....Todd
Click to expand...

There shouldn't be a problem if the gun were duly registered by someone with an appropriate PAL.

Incidentally, the first Numrich boot pistols used left over Thompson smg pistol grips.
I've often wondered why a manufacturer never made an accurate reproduction of the classic New England boot pistols.
 
Sharps '63 said:
You ever wanna sell it, I'm interested - for her.
Click to expand...
That's ironic, as I picked this one up for my wife who is now putting my off-hand shooting to shame. Beginners eh? Sheesh.....
The only thing is that I wish it was in a .32 or .36 cal, as she finds the .45 a little heavier up front, and kicks a bit more than she would like.

I've just recently heard of a gunsmith not far from here who has underhammer guns and parts, I'll see if he's got any other H&A guns on the racks.
 
Ladie's Rifles & Pistols

Tiriaq/weapontech

OK, now I know why the grip on my ladie's 'boot pistol' looks familiar ... shoulda recognized it! What a connection - from a Thompson SMG to a single shot percussion pistol.
I was gonna chop it up a little to better suit her grip style, but I think I'll let her adapt to it. Shouldn't be hard as it is now definitely "HER" gun. I just get to clean it!

Her 'new' rifle is a TC 'Seneca' in .36, acquired from this site. We had a stock maker cut off almost 1" from the stock and refit the brass butt plate and toe piece. She has yet to fire it, but will within the week.
I predict she'll be an ace with it, just like the pistol. Her current rifle is also a TC, a .50. It's not a 'Hawken', but one of the more recent offerings. It also was cut down for her, and while she shoots it well, I think she'll be happier with the Seneca.
I've been forbidden to shoot it before she does! I did that once, with the .50 and I still hear about it ....

She'll probably be willing to part with the .50 after she shoots the .36.

Todd
 
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