Universal Clays in Handgun loads

Jarlath

Jarlath

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Anyone have any experience with Universal Clays for reloading 9mm, .40S&W, etc...?

As my first attempt at reloading pistol ammo, I loaded 140 various powder charges for .40 S&W
Brass - Speer (Once fired)
Primer - Win SP
Bullet - 180gr CMJ West Coast
Podwer - Hodgdon Universal Clays
3.6 - 4.6gr in .2gr steps, & 5.0 gr. (20 rounds of each)

Seating OAL, Crimping are all pretty much identical. (Used separate single stage presses to ensure conformity)

My Velocity spreads are all over the charts.
3.6gr - 122.7 ES, 601.5 Avg.
3.8gr - 81.1 ES, 589.2 Avg
4.0gr - 111.1 ES, 614.9 Avg
4.2gr - 83.9 ES, 694.2 Avg
4.4gr - 67.7 ES, 724.6 Avg
4.6gr - 164.5 ES, 798.6 Avg
5.0gr - 81.2 ES, 915.5 Avg

Are these reasonable velocity spreads? Or is Universal Clays inconsistant?

I also noticed filler/unburnt powder flakes. (In the chrony there were many of these small flakes. Is this a norm for this powder? I was extremely happy with the cleanliness of the powder during shooting (no more clouds of smoke to hack through)...
I learned that I'll need to use probably 4.3gr to consistantly make PF125000. Anyone else use this powder? Comments? Anyone?
(After I go through this powder I'm going to go try Titegroup but that is a different topic.)
 
I tried a pound of UC for my 9mm and .45 ACP and was not impressed with the accuracy in either caliber, I did however notice that it did burn fairly clean. I will stick to Bullseye for the .45 (yeah it smokes, but I can't argue with the groups) and W540/HS-6 for my 9mm.
 
In 40S&W 5.3 gr with 180gr bullet makes major.

Not as accurate as WSF but burns much cleaner. My chrono'ed loads show a spread of 70 fps, (regular size die).

Some of your spreads seem a bit high (but I don't load this in 9mm). This could be due to bullet set back, (the bullet gets pushed deeper into the case as it is stripped from the magazine and loaded into the chamber). You can check this with a dummy round (no powder/primer). Measure before and after you drop the slide. More crimp does not work as too much kills accuracy.

If this is an issue get an undersize sizing die (EGW have them). Stops set back completely.

40S&W still gives better accuracy with a slower powder though.
 
acrashb said:
I'm trying it in 9mm, with 4.5gr under a 115. Velocity is 1155, SD9 (which is quite good). No unburnt flakes, little residue.
Click to expand...

Yeah. That was why I wos wondering. My SD's are range from 21.4 to 38.9 which are huge! Am I loading too light? 3.6gr reliably cycles my CZ, but I don't know the recommended max's for Universal with regards to plated bullets. (I can find lots with lead.)
 
Onthebeep said:
In 40S&W 5.3 gr with 180gr bullet makes major.

Not as accurate as WSF but burns much cleaner. My chrono'ed loads show a spread of 70 fps, (regular size die).
Some of your spreads seem a bit high (but I don't load this in 9mm). This could be due to bullet set back, (the bullet gets pushed deeper into the case as it is stripped from the magazine and loaded into the chamber). You can check this with a dummy round (no powder/primer). Measure before and after you drop the slide. More crimp does not work as too much kills accuracy.

If this is an issue get an undersize sizing die (EGW have them). Stops set back completely.

40S&W still gives better accuracy with a slower powder though.
Click to expand...
Being of a frugal heritage (Read being Dutch), I opted to start with Universal due to price and the wide range of calibres for which data was published. Plus people kept saying it burned very cleanly. Like I said. My first attempts at reloading for hangund ammo. I'm first looking at getting repeatable loads (aka minimal fps spread) and then I'll look into the most accurate loads using the same powder. I have the time and patience, just not the knowledge & experience... Yet....
 
Jarlath said:
My SD's are range from 21.4 to 38.9 which are huge! Am I loading too light?
Click to expand...

Maybe. I find that SD's decrease as the load increases, then goes up again near/at/over max loads - generally, not always. With good plated bullets, I use jacketed load info. Plated will enter the bore more easily, hence should be lower pressures than jacketed all else being equal (same OAL-->seating depth in case).
 
I've found that the powder burn position has more to do with SD than any other factor - if the peak burn is late ( at the end of the barrel,) any slight variation forward or backward has a huge effect on the SD of a bullet. The position of the peak burn can be affected by a number or things - Powder type, temperature, primer ( large pistol/magnum large pistol), weight of bullet, seating depth and crimp in roughly that order - I think.

So - the burn peak can be brought back into the barrel by changing to a faster powder, shoot warm - from inside the house ( tough if you're bear hunting,) using magnum primers, using a heavier bullet or seat it deeper.

If the peak burn is well inside the barrel, it is much easier to achieve accuracy because the main push is over before the bullet exits the barrel - so a fast powder like Bullseye is a favourite - SD's will be low, but velocities will be lower also. Fast powders may cycle an autoloading action fine, even at lower velocities than a slow powder will.

Pistol powders are greatly affected by temperature - up to twenty percent velocity loss at -20F. This decrease seems to turn medium rate powder into slow powder - muzzle flash and wide ranging SD and possible function problems in auto. Loading over the max might work, but makes for dangerous ammo if used in summer.

Magnum primers do light 'em up earlier in the barrel - and add about 40 to eighty fps so work up from a lower charge. This is my favourite - Magnum primers always lower my SD's - a lot. The colder the weather, the more difference the magnum primers make.

Bullet weight - a heavier egg must leave the chicken a little later, with a little more oomph, getting the burn over sooner in the barrel - and SD's lower.

Seating depth will change things more than a guy would think - 50 thou (1/20") deeper will warm up a .45acp by maybe 40fps.

Oh - and one more - barrel length - match your powder speed to your barrel - slower Longshot will get some high velocities if you have the barrel length to burn it in, but it leaves a terrible burn mark on the underside of the table when you light it up in a derringer. : )

First time I've put this stuff down in writing - hope it helps someone.
 
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