UPDATED Ongoing Win 94 headspace woes

TheCoachZed

TheCoachZed

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Me again!

I followed the advice of measuring the popped primers off a new, freshly primed case. They seemed to indicate headspace was about 0.010 off (measured four, took the average), so I bought an oversized locking bolt in that size.

Followed instructions to disassemble rifle, got the old locking bolt out. Went to insert new one, and it slid right in until the last few mm of travel. Now the gun will ####, fire, etc, but the bolt will not full close! :eek::eek::eek:

Suggestions? I am thinking, remove new bolt, figure out where to file it down, and start handfitting, just like they did in the Winchester factories of yore?

Or am I a fool who is playing with fire and needs to take his rifle back to the LGS?

My thinking is, I could easily ruin the headspace on the new locking bolt with non-careful use of a file.



Hi folks,

I have a Pre-64 Winchester 94 that was popping primers, so I took it to the LGS last fall to get him to run his gauges through it. Lo and behold, it closed on a No-go gauge, then on a Field gauge.

He gave me the "over" numbers on those, but I lost them. As in, how far over the headspace was.

Anyway, I have found replacement locking bolts here here and here, that will tighten up my headspace.

Given that my rifle closes on a .30-30 field gauge, which one of those locking bolts do I want?
 
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According to the SAAMI drawing the minimum headspace breech to bolt face gap is 0.063" and maximum is 0.070" so closing on the field gauge would make it at least 0.007" beyond minimum headspace, how much beyond that is hard to say. If you had the field gauge the redneck way to check beyond that is to put layers of tape on the base of the gauge until it will not close on it then remove one layer of tape and measure the thickness of the remaining tape and add it to the 0.007" for a close guess as to total beyond minimum headspace. Probably the proper way would be to have all three locking bolts and use or fit the one that gives the closest to the minimum 0.063" headspace.

http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Rifle/30-30%20Winchester.pdf
 
Headspace gauges don't give numbers. They only tell you if the headspace is within tolerance. Not that it matters when it's bad. However, bits of tape tests nothing. Tape is paper and compresses easily. Neither does a primed empty case. Cutting up brass shims of a known thickness or a feeler gauge($9.99 at Princess Auto) on a measured case rim thickness and measuring with a micrometer will work though.
Like Silverback says the only way to do it properly is to buy all three and check with headspace gauges. A No-Go and a Field are enough($28.99US each from Brownell's. They're not the only game in town and buying isn't our only option. You can rent 'em, cheap, from several places Stateside with no fuss.). Kind of pricey at $55US each though.
 
I once had a 94 with seriously excessive headspace. The problem was not with the bolt or lock, it was worn abutment shoulders in the receiver. Only real fix would have been to set the barrel back one thread and recut the chamber. Catch with that is everything forward of the receiver has to be adjusted.
Here is a way of getting a pretty good idea of the size of the bolt face to barrel face gap: Take a primed case (no powder or bullet) and fire it. The primer will be backed well out of the case. Measure the rim thickness, measure the primer protrusion, add the measurements together. This will give you an idea of just how much space there is. Compare this dimension with the known rim thicknesses of the different gauges.
 
Despite what Sunray says, which is usually the norm, the tape method using plastic tape, which he has obviously never heard of, would work. You are not putting huge amounts of pressure on the tape, and you can easily tell when it is getting tight and the bolt is harder to close, again this is the redneck way to do it when you have no other options readily available.
 
Just curious as to whether lightly inserting a primer (used) into a spent case and
closing the bolt on it.
Would it not push the primer into the primer pocket until it couldn't push it in any more?
Same idea as firing a primed empty case?
 
There is nothing wrong with using a case layered with tape and measuring the rim and tape...

I have been using tape on go gauges (successfully) to check headspace for 45 years. It works perfectly fine if you have any sense of touch.

In this particular case you can simply fire a primed case (no powder, no bullet) and the case will stay forward and the primer will back up to the bolt face. Measure the rim thickness and how much the primer protrudes and you will have a measurement to work from.
 
Me again!

I followed the advice of measuring the popped primers off a new, freshly primed case. They seemed to indicate headspace was about 0.010 off (measured four, took the average), so I bought an oversized locking bolt in that size.

Followed instructions to disassemble rifle, got the old locking bolt out. Went to insert new one, and it slid right in until the last few mm of travel. Now the gun will ####, fire, etc, but the bolt will not full close! :eek::eek::eek:

Suggestions? I am thinking, remove new bolt, figure out where to file it down, and start handfitting, just like they did in the Winchester factories of yore?

Or am I a fool who is playing with fire and needs to take his rifle back to the LGS?

My thinking is, I could easily ruin the headspace on the new locking bolt with non-careful use of a file.
 
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