US Army stands by M4 carbine as its future weapon of choice - Janes

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From Janes Defence Weekly - 08 Jan 08

US Army stands by M4 carbine as its future weapon of choice
Nathan Hodge JDW Staff Reporter
Washington, DC

The US Army plans to adopt the M4 carbine as the main weapon for its troops, continuing a shift toward more versatile, short-barrelled weapons for mounted operations.

"I don't think we'll ever go back to the long rifle as the weapon that our soldiers routinely carry," said Colonel Robert Radcliffe, director of combat developments at the US Army Infantry Center at Fort Benning, Georgia, in a 17 December press roundtable. "The carbine is going to be the weapon of choice."

The service is standing by the M4 despite recent questions about the weapon's performance and reliability in extremely dusty conditions.

In recent comparative testing, the Colt Manufacturing M4 fared worse than three other weapons: the Heckler and Koch (HK) HK416, the FN Herstal Mk16 Special Operations Combat Assault Rifle (SCAR) and the HK XM8. Testers subjected each test weapon to 25 hours of dusting and then fired 6,000 rounds; 10 of each model were tested, for a total of 60,000 rounds.

The XM8 performed best, with a total of 127 stoppages. The SCAR had 226 stoppages, including 16 major stoppages, and the HK416 experienced 233 stoppages. The M4, by contrast, experienced a total of 882 stoppages, including 19 'Class 3' (serious) failures.

Service officials said the tests reinforced the importance of proper cleaning and lubrication and downplayed any need to consider fielding an alternative to the M4.

Brigadier General Mark Brown, the army's top procurement officer for soldier weapons, said the service still had full confidence in the M4.

"We want to complete the full data analysis of this test, which is still in process, and provide the results to the [US Army] Training and Doctrine Command to inform the development of any future requirement," he said. "We want to continue to support the army with the M4 carbine and use these test results to improve the current force carbine wherever possible."

The service is planning minor design improvements to the carbine. A requirements document is to be drafted by mid-2009. Gen Brown suggested the service would look to new technologies - such as advancements in metallurgy - to enhance its performance.

Both the M4 and the M16 rifle designs - which are operated by direct gas impingement - have come under close scrutiny since the beginning of combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Some critics have argued that the service should adopt a gas-piston model that is less susceptible to dirt and fouling. The XM8, HK416 and SCAR are all piston operated.

US Special Operations Command (SOCOM), in fact, has selected the SCAR - a modular weapon system with different barrel configurations that can be chambered for NATO 5.56 mm and 7.62 mm cartridges - as its next-generation assault rifle. SOCOM began operational testing of the SCAR in July 2007. During this testing, the weapon has been tested in a range of conditions and environments, from woodland to riverine operations. Army special forces tested the SCAR in alpine and cold weather conditions in December.

A full-rate production decision on the SCAR is expected after SOCOM releases test findings in late January or early February. David Merrill, director of military communications for FNH USA, told Jane's that if the military approves full-rate production the company is expecting total orders of 15,000 to 20,000 weapons.

© 2008 Jane's Information Group

The M4 works out to having a 1.47% failure rate, or about 1 failure per three 30rd mags fired. The XM8 works out to .22% failure rate or one failure per 21 30rd mags fired.
 
1 failure per 3 mags sounds somewhat serious to me.. but I don't know squat, my AR only sees a one way range.

Im curious if the members here who use these guns overseas are experiencing anything close to this kind of failure rate. Something tells me no... I suppose because these tests were done specifically with failure in mind... I imagine they treated the guns far worse than what they would encounter in a real life battle situation.
 
I've read posts from guys who were over there who love the M4 platform.

You have to remember that that 1 failure per three 30rd mags fired was in horrible "test" conditions. The actual failure rate in real world conditions is not even close to this.

Thats not to say that there aren't better options than the M4.
 
I read a write up on this somwhere else that said a very big chunk of the M4 failures were caused by bad mags.
 
I have read that many U.S. troops are taking their own mags with them when they go over there. Wilson's etc. It seems the issue ones leave something to be desired.
 
Too bad those M4's won't be able to touch #### past 300 m in a conventional future conflict with the PRC.
 
Nothing to do with reliability or cost . Check where the M4's are manufactured , check the senators and congressmen from those districts and check what comittees they sit on or chair. Whether they function or not is incidental.
 
Too bad those M4's won't be able to touch s**t past 300 m in a conventional future conflict with the PRC.

Did we forget the lessons for the last 50 years? Battle rifles, etc are history. Simply an awkward phase in the transition to assault rifles from high powered bolt actions.

Yes they are still in limited use, yes they are very cool (my second m14s is in the mail now). But seriously, it doesn't get much more open country than Afghanistan and if the M4 (C8, etc) works there, where else wouldn't it work? I am pretty sure there are a heck of alot more trees and cover in both China and Canada then there is in Afghanistan. Besides which, wars are being fought in built up areas more then ever now, making the argument even more illogical. 300m is plenty.

I can't think of a single situation were a C9, C6, mortars, 84mm, m72 wouldn't be a better choice past 300m anyway, unless you are worried about collateral damage, in which case a section's/platoon's worth of 7.62 fire from a mildly accurate MBR won't solve that either.

As for the dust test? I will wait for the full report to pass judgment but have no plans of dumping handfuls of dust into my chamber anytime soon so it is kind of a moot point for me. Kinda like how many rounds between stoppages when fired underwater, etc. Never gonna fire underwater so I don't care.
 
%90 of the remaining oil on Earth is in a small triangle the size of Kansas. I'm surprised the US doesn't develop a rifle specifically designed to handle the conditions present in this area, since it is obvious that this is where those weapons are going to be used. Having a gun that functions flawlessly when properly cleaned and maintained only matters when you are an overwhelming force with the time and leisure to do so. Once things even out and the US is on the back foot in these regions, they may find that a gun finickey to the talcum powder dust storm conditions puts them at a serious disadvantage.
 
Not sure where you get 90% from.... This source would imply more like 62%........ First column is total reserves for the country.

Summary of Reserve Data (2007) Country Reserves 1 Production 2 Reserve life 3
(109bbl) (106bpd) (years)
Saudi Arabia 260 8.8 81
Canada 179 2.7 182
Iran 136 3.7 101
Iraq 115 2.2 143
Kuwait 99 2.5 108
United Arab Emirates 97 2.5 107
Venezuela 80 2.4 91
Russia 60 9.5 17
United States 21 4.9 12
Mexico 12 3.2 10

Notes:

1. Estimated reserves in billions (109) of barrels. (Source: Oil & Gas Journal, January, 2007)
2. Production rate in millions (106) of barrels per day (Source: US Energy Information Authority, September, 2007)
3. Reserve life in years, calculated as reserves / annual production. (from above)
 
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FYI (and touch wood) I have not experience a stoppage in a M16FOW in Iraq or Afghanistan with several thousand rounds fired.

The Hk416 is a great weapon system -- but I am not feeling underarmed with the M4A1.
 
I'm glad they are going to keep and improve the M4 because I just purchased a Colt LE6920.
Even though mine is a civilian M4, applicable battle proven improvements will trickle down to the retail market :cool:
 
FYI (and touch wood) I have not experience a stoppage in a M16FOW in Iraq or Afghanistan with several thousand rounds fired.

The Hk416 is a great weapon system -- but I am not feeling underarmed with the M4A1.

Nice. What is your cleaning regiment if you dont mind me asking?
 
I think the M4 is great, I carried a C8 in Afghanistan, no problems. I would imagine Canada will follow suit in the next 5 years or so (or go to the SFW which I believe is a 15.8 inch barrel, can anyone confirm this length??)
 
When I was overseas, I had no problems with my C8FTHB. I cleaned her daily, sometimes more often as it got crazy dirty in the bustle of my LAV. I don't think we will adopt the C8 for the rmy as a whole though, I think the C7A2 mods (IMHO) wrer ment to address having a rifle that was too long for close in stuff.

Concerning the 300m effective range, 25mm frangible and HE are the way ahead.
 
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