US Govt Report on ARs and M4s being deficient?

Dosing

Dosing

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I picked up some magazine with the buff coloured FN Scar on its cover, and in the magazine there were repeated refrences to a US Govt report on the deficencies of the M4 and AR platforms. Problem is I have lost the mag, but was wanting to find a copy of the report to read for myself.
Anyone know if there is a copy on line? Or what its title was?
TIA
 
Yes, I happen to have it in my hands right now. I dont know where to find it online. But I believe you are looking for SPECIAL WEAPONS for MILITARY & POLICE Issue #40. Man I wish I could get a subscription to this magazine!
 
If the M-16 was "deficient", the US government would have got rid of it years ago. As it is, the M-16 has been in service for over 40 years.

The publication in question is just a glossy advertisement for FN. And next month when it becomes a glossy advertisement for H&K, then you will read why H&K's offering is so much better than FN's.

Joe.
 
Kano said:
...... I believe you are looking for SPECIAL WEAPONS for MILITARY & POLICE Issue #40. Man I wish I could get a subscription to this magazine!
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Why can't you? I have one! Got it 2 years ago thru the on-line subscription service. Same guys publish Combat Handguns (which I also subscibe too). Gee... guess that puts me up a notch on the RCMP list ;) They should know me by know anyways... I ussed to subscribe to SOF thru my teenage years :redface:

Regards,
 
Kano said:
Yes, I happen to have it in my hands right now. I dont know where to find it online. But I believe you are looking for SPECIAL WEAPONS for MILITARY & POLICE Issue #40. Man I wish I could get a subscription to this magazine!
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That sounds right, but can you tell me the name of the US Govt report?
It is refrenced in the HK and FN story.
TIA


joeschmoe said:
If the M-16 was "deficient", the US government would have got rid of it years ago. As it is, the M-16 has been in service for over 40 years.

The publication in question is just a glossy advertisement for FN. And next month when it becomes a glossy advertisement for H&K, then you will read why H&K's offering is so much better than FN's.

Joe.
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Actually the same publication has info on the new HK. And not to be arguementative, but your argument is not that well reasoned. Once you hitch your wagon to a horse, your stuck with it, which is what the US has had happen to it.
 
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You need to go over to ARFcom this subject going back to the XM8 project and the piston evolution...etc... has been beaten to death. So many subjects on this. Really the AR platform is so crappy that many mfgs have come up with the utlimate perfect weapon that most are still pushing back delivery dates, evolution is a good thing, but to simply say the AR is crap is not well reasonned. Mfgs have come out with design variations based on the AR platform, but they may or may not offer major improvements over the current system, some designs may be more appropriate for one application but not so much for another. XM project WAS the ultimate weapon system, :rolleyes:
 
anytime something new comes down the pipeline the old stuff is no good anymore. we saw it with the M16 coming along, the previous rifle was no good and now we'll be able to win all our wars and suffer no troop loss. Then the 1911 was too old and the .45 was a useless round, incapable of stopping the charging armies, so go hicap 9mm. Now it's happening again, with .223/AR's and 9mm Beretta. It's marketing hype and payoffs to those making the purchases. It's what keeps the economy alive. The Military is as bad as you and me for wanting to keep their #### new and of the latest and greatest varieties.
 
"m4a1 5.56mm carbine and related systems deficiencies and solutions" is the name of it, from 2001. Anyone know of a copy online. I have searched around but can't find a copy.
 
Dosing said:
That sounds right, but can you tell me the name of the US Govt report?
It is refrenced in the HK and FN story.
TIA



Actually the same publication has info on the new HK. And not to be arguementative, but your argument is not that well reasoned. Once you hitch your wagon to a horse, your stuck with it, which is what the US has had happen to it.
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I got to fire an M16 on full auto recently in Vietnam. The sucker jammed every 2-3 rounds, which was a total ripoff. It was clean and well maintained too. I was very disappointed. The guy told me to try the AK, but noooo, I didn't listen.
I don't think they're always reliable, and that just can't be a good thing in a combat weapon.
 
cantom said:
I got to fire an M16 on full auto recently in Vietnam. The sucker jammed every 2-3 rounds, which was a total ripoff. It was clean and well maintained too. I was very disappointed. The guy told me to try the AK, but noooo, I didn't listen.
I don't think they're always reliable, and that just can't be a good thing in a combat weapon.
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I have fired the C7 and C8 thousands of times FA with no problems at all. The weapon you were using had problems!
 
But that's just the point isn't it. When an AR doesn't work is because it hasn't been well maintained, hasn't been set up properly, made poorly, ect. ect. When you pick up an AK, any AK from anywhere IT WORKS! No excuses. Don't get me wrong I like the AR, I just don't believe a combat gun should have to be coddled so much. What was that quote some guy said about all you should have to do is piss in the action to clear away the dirt and start firing.
 
I can't defend the AR15 all by myself here........KevinB where are you? .......he's just like the great Gazoo, never here when I need him.

Gazoo.gif
 
I too fired the M16 f/a in nam, without a hitch. Just squeezed the trigger and let it all go...

The M60 was more rewarding though!
 
Oh ####ing god -- think people.

I have used an AK47 and AKM operationally - as well as C7's C8SFW and M4A1's -- I MUCH prefer the M4A1 (or C8SFW) to the SOVBLOC guns.

Anyone who has problems with a M4 is either a moron or the gun is a Very Very rare lemon.
The majority other these "reports" on deficiencies with the M16/M4 platforms are mostly one person gripping.
 
cantom said:
I got to fire an M16 on full auto recently in Vietnam. The sucker jammed every 2-3 rounds,
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Vietnam. There is your problem. I would not be surprised if it was a US captured M16 from the Vietnam war using ammo from the Vietnam war, and having had thousands of rounds through it without parts replacement or proper maintenence. Bottom line is that any firearm will malfunction without proper maintenence. In your case, you could have a weak / chipped extractor, or if I am wrong about the Vietnam war theory it could be an AR converted to full auto which may explain the jams.

It is all relative. The AR platform is versatile, accurate and very ergonomic. 9/10 western soldiers would probably choose it these days, although that may have a lot to do with the fact that they trained with them.

But it is all relative. You bring a more user friendly rifle with greater accuracy and guarenteed to shoot 25,000 consecutive rounds without failure and then you can say the AR is "deficient."
 
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