Used lathe opinions

Nbmonte, another machine shop guy here.

The issue with buying a used lathe is that being a newb to lathes you don't really know what to look for. Any used machine will have SOME wear. The trick is knowing how much is too much. And how to test or inspect a number of other things to find out if there's "issues".

I'm also in the camp that says to avoid the older machines with wide flat belt cone pulleys like that Hendey. Lots of fun if you're a tinkering sort of guy. But not the way to go if you just want a useable tool to get on with it. In terms of being more modern and reliable and serviceable the Harrison or a Standard Modern or other brands of similar design and age are going to be far more suitable to your goals. But there again it depends on what sort of use it saw in the past. Hours alone doesn't matter as a well oiled and maintained machine can be good despite literally tens of thousands of hours of use. But a machine that was used without care might well be junk in just a few hundred hours. Again the trick is in the knowledge to know what to look for and what to bring along to test inspect the machine before buying.

You don't need to go TOO large but you do want to go large and heavy enough. Remember that the "length" is given as plain center to plain center. Add a chuck and live center and the 24, 36 or 40" capacity on length drops by a good size chunk in a hurry. And if you wish to be able to profile barrel blanks you'll likely find that a 24 inch length capacity turns out to be on the short side for some barrel work options. So better to go with a 36" model to cover that.

If you're looking at new to avoid all the potential servicing issues you might have a look at KBC tools. They have a 12x36 for $5K that looks decent enough for a home hobby gunsmithing lathe. Some will say that the 14x40 is a far better machine. And they are right, it is. But it's also $7K or $9.5K depending on which of them you look at.

https://www.kbctools.ca/itemdetail/6-125-063

When I look at US prices I see the same lathe on sale for $5K US at Precision Matthews. So $5K Canadian from KBC is actually pretty decent.

My own lathe is a 12x36 belt head model from the early 90's. And no, I'm not suggesting this size just because it is what I use. I'm suggesting it because if bolted down to a really good base to make it more than it can be while sitting on tin boxes the machine is good enough to do the jobs you want to do. And it'll do it on a little less of a sticker price. But if the extra $2500 (allowing for taxes) for the lower model 14x40 doesn't scare you then by all means go for it. But I would look into getting an online manual for it first to see if the quick change box has to use a lot of gearing changes under the end cover or if it allows for the full range of thread and feed options off the four hand dials. That can get old pretty quickly. The 12x36 I gave the link for above has a proper quick change gear box so all the imperial threading options along with feeds are directly accessed.
 
You also have to consider having it moved from where you bought it from. I just upgraded from a Myford ML7 to a South Bend 13 inch. The guy I bought the South Bend from was good enough to include delivery. He used a home made gantry that allowed us to lift it off of his 12ft utility trailer. The South Bend was around 1800lb. I would have been screwed trying to dismantle it and load in the back of a Subaru.

I’m in the old American,Canadian or British iron tool camp. I’d keep looking. The right lathe at the right price will come up. Keep asking Old timers. A lot of them might know someone. That’s how the I found the South Bend.
 
You also have to consider having it moved from where you bought it from. I just upgraded from a Myford ML7 to a South Bend 13 inch. The guy I bought the South Bend from was good enough to include delivery. He used a home made gantry that allowed us to lift it off of his 12ft utility trailer. The South Bend was around 1800lb. I would have been screwed trying to dismantle it and load in the back of a Subaru.

I’m in the old American,Canadian or British iron tool camp. I’d keep looking. The right lathe at the right price will come up. Keep asking Old timers. A lot of them might know someone. That’s how the I found the South Bend.

I moved mine, a 12x 36 with an engine hoist. :)

Grizz
 
Thanks for all the help. I’ve pretty much convinced myself to go new. I’m likely still 6 months to a year away from getting something, lots of time to research the options.

I think I’ve finally learned to buy once cry once, I hope to get this purchase right (or close enough).
 
Thanks for all the help. I’ve pretty much convinced myself to go new. I’m likely still 6 months to a year away from getting something, lots of time to research the options.

I think I’ve finally learned to buy once cry once, I hope to get this purchase right (or close enough).

The lathe is cheap, it's the tooling that will cut into your gun budget severely . :redface:

Grizz
 
That’s absurd pricing, my buddy has cut nicer up for scrap because no one would pay more. Of course, these are machines a bit big for a garage, but still.
 
That’s absurd pricing, my buddy has cut nicer up for scrap because no one would pay more. Of course, these are machines a bit big for a garage, but still.

As someone on the "other" coast I've come to realize that prices on used machinery of this sort is VERY HIGHLY regional. In the manufacturing belt around the Great Lakes this stuff barely brings in scrap iron prices on used gear. But as we get further and further away the prices climb rapidly. Out here on the "Wet" coast prices are typically not as bad as nmonte found but they are often not far better. And it's a long and patient hunt and a fast grab at the listings when a good deal comes up.

And of course there's the very real issue that used gear can often be abused gear. And that happens often enough that I would not trust buying a used lathe sight unseen unless I was willing to gamble the full purchase price and be willing to write it off or get what I could out of the parts if it turned out that it was worn past useable condition.

So if you find it absurd I'm going to guess that you live in an area with commonly found good condition used gear. Otherwise monitoring the listings in a given region over the course of 6 months to a year is going to pretty well show what the local going prices are.

By the way nmonte, the lathe I mentioned I have is an Asian. But I picked it up back in the very early 90's. And judging by the casting sand I found in the various places where sand should not be when I stripped it down I suspect it came out of one of the mainland Chinese factories. That being said once I cleaned up and put it back together it's done well for me. I have no issues with sharp HSS holding my work right off the cutter to within a half a thousandth of an inch. So good work doesn't always have to come from classic British, American or even the rare Canadian offerings. But regardless of how good the machine it still needs to be set up and tuned with care and skill or even the best machines won't work worth a hoot. But hey, that's part of the skill you will end up learning.
 
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I'm running a Precision Matthews PM1030V lathe - 10" swing, 30" bed. 115V, power cross-feed, came with the QCTP installed already.

The 'equivalent' Busy Bee was only 22" bed, and you had to buy a QCTP that you'd need to modify to install. I did the importation myself when I got it, and the cost for a more capable machine was almost exactly the same as the 'taxes in' price from BB.

Yup, I've got to deal with manual gear changes instead of a quick change gear box, but it was what I could afford and fit in my shop, and provide power to.

I ended up selling an old SB 10K lathe as part of my 'upgrade' plan because, in the end, I realized that I wanted to work WITH my lathe, not work ON my lathe.

Buying 'old iron' is a bit of a crap-shoot - I had a 9A and a 10K, and both came out of a high-school. There were parts of the bed that you could still see the hand-scraping. Other parts had big gouges and lots of waves/dips.

Tooling - yeah....tooling is a big thing. I got a bunch of insert tooling with my PM, and found that while BB does sell inserts - they charge 5 times what you can get the same insert for on Amazon.

I've recently gotten my old B096 mill back in the game after a few years of having it offline due to not having 220 in my garage/shop. I've dumped more on tooling in the past month than I have in years..

As a starter lathe - the 10-22 or 1030 size lathes are a great way to go. The small 7x14's are going to leave you wanting. Learning to cut, hold a tolerance, and basic threading operations on a 10" swing lathe is a good way to go, then down the road look at a 14-40 or something similar.

NS
 
The lathe is cheap, it's the tooling that will cut into your gun budget severely . :redface:

Grizz

Not nearly to the same level that trying to tool up a mill from scratch will.

A quick change tool post is really nice to have. I built a clone of a Tripan Tool Post for my Myford, and used it for years before finally getting my hooks into the real thing.
Best part, as I see it, is that the dovetail type tool holders are pretty easy to make, and I made a bucket full of blanks. There is everything available from really inexpensive, to really really expensive stuff out there.

Of all the things I ever put on one of my lathes, it's a toss-up between a quick change tool post and a Digital Read out, as being the hardest to live without, as far as going a step back is concerned.

A set of pretty generic carbide insert type tool holders can be got pretty cheap off various online sources. Inserts to match, too. You WILL destroy a lot of inserts as you learn how to make the lathe work for you.

I like HSS tooling, use it a lot, and buy a lot of mainly smaller size HSS blanks. They come on sale at places like Busy Bee or KBC Tools, for really cheap. Good time to stock up on 1/4' square, and the rectangular profile ones (1/2 x 1/4, or 1/2 x 3/8) make really good blanks for boring and internal threading tools. It's not a $10 each disaster when you break a tool and they don't chip when accidentally bumped against the work or chuck jaws.

Some live and dead centers, a drill chuck or two for the tailstock taper socket, and you can do an awful lot.

After that, if you need or want stuff like collet chucks and collets, or other chucks than the ones the machine came with, well, you can spend an awful pile on stuff that you won't get much use out of, no matter that it seemed like you 'needed' it. You can do almost anything with a very basically equipped lathe, adding the extra tooling can make it a little faster or easier to set up, but won't change the quality of the output work.
 
Electrician friend of mine was telling me 3 to single phase VFD's are getting cheaper now. With that a 3 phase would work on residential power
 
I’ve been following the lathe threads on here with interest for a few years now, and I’m at the point where I’ve decided to just get one over the next year and start learning. I plan on talking to a few local guys I know and hopefully they’ll agree to pass on some knowledge.

Until then I’m trying to get an idea of the local market and that’s where I need some help from cgn. There are 3 lathes localish to me and I’d like your opinions on the lathe and their price. I know it really depends on the shape of the lathe and the tooling included with it, I’m just looking for your gut reaction to these lathes.

Thanks

Harrison
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/fredericton/12-harrison-lathe-with-metal-bender/1542670069


Hendey
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/fredericton/lathe-metal-lathe/1524940743

Standard modern utilathe
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/moncton/metal-lathe/1535818309

I'd love to find a little Atlas!
 
I'd love to find a little Atlas!

No, no you wouldn't....

Really. They are low-rent crap, that about any of the cheapest of the Chinese imports could work circles around.

The 6 inch Atlas has a tiny and thus flexible spindle, the 10 inch Atlas is only marginally better, but not by a long shot, and the 12 inch Atlas, the best of the lot, really looks like a loser if you compare it's capability to any other of it's peers in the size range.
Sears sold both AA, and Atlas lathes with a 6 inch swing, under the Craftsman brand. Opinions are mixed but generally agree that the AA lathes are even crappier than Atlas 6 inch lathes...
On the other end of the spectrum, Sears also sold Emco lathes, made in Austria (as opposed to Enco lathes, inexpensive far east imports) under the Craftsman label. A friend of mine has a 5 inch swing Craftsman which is an Emco Compact 5 lathe, and I have seen an Emco Compact 8 lathe for sale that was Craftsman labeled. They are actually pretty nice, if light machines.

That Atlas used Zamak die cast parts and gears, is another Atlas issue. You can read about Matchbox cars dissolving inside their packages, and the gears and some of the handles, and other parts are prone to same.

You don't want an Atlas.

Given that the newest one you might find is liable to have seen 50+ years of abuse and use, they are not something that is worth chasing down if you have other choices.

In all seriousness, shop condition. Look for the least beat to hell machine you can find, that's in your size and price range.

If you are worried about parts availability or warranty stuff, buy new, pay your money, but don't expect much in the way of actual support, as usually, by the time something breaks, you are reduced down to making it yourself, or fixing it yourself.
Honestly, in over 30 years of having a metal lathe around, the only one thing that I have replaced as far as 'parts', was a nut on the cross feed of one of my Myford lathes. It didn't really 'need' to be replaced, I had a new one and installed it...

Breaking things is unusual.
 
there are a couple on the crown assets site now, Colchester's. one is in the hand tool section.

Pretty surprised to see that Colchester 2500 pulling down the bid it is (currently just over $4K) as it does not seem to have any of the accoutrements that it should have with, steady and follower rests, and chucks, etc.
It looks pretty hard used, from the wear in the paint around the various parts of it. Be interesting to see it in person, and see if the bed looks like it's in decent shape.

The MasterTurn is a big lathe for a home shop! If you got the power to run it, it might be a deal.
 
No, no you wouldn't....

Really. They are low-rent crap, that about any of the cheapest of the Chinese imports could work circles around.

The 6 inch Atlas has a tiny and thus flexible spindle, the 10 inch Atlas is only marginally better, but not by a long shot, and the 12 inch Atlas, the best of the lot, really looks like a loser if you compare it's capability to any other of it's peers in the size range.
Sears sold both AA, and Atlas lathes with a 6 inch swing, under the Craftsman brand. Opinions are mixed but generally agree that the AA lathes are even crappier than Atlas 6 inch lathes...
On the other end of the spectrum, Sears also sold Emco lathes, made in Austria (as opposed to Enco lathes, inexpensive far east imports) under the Craftsman label. A friend of mine has a 5 inch swing Craftsman which is an Emco Compact 5 lathe, and I have seen an Emco Compact 8 lathe for sale that was Craftsman labeled. They are actually pretty nice, if light machines.

That Atlas used Zamak die cast parts and gears, is another Atlas issue. You can read about Matchbox cars dissolving inside their packages, and the gears and some of the handles, and other parts are prone to same.

You don't want an Atlas.

Given that the newest one you might find is liable to have seen 50+ years of abuse and use, they are not something that is worth chasing down if you have other choices.

In all seriousness, shop condition. Look for the least beat to hell machine you can find, that's in your size and price range.

If you are worried about parts availability or warranty stuff, buy new, pay your money, but don't expect much in the way of actual support, as usually, by the time something breaks, you are reduced down to making it yourself, or fixing it yourself.
Honestly, in over 30 years of having a metal lathe around, the only one thing that I have replaced as far as 'parts', was a nut on the cross feed of one of my Myford lathes. It didn't really 'need' to be replaced, I had a new one and installed it...

Breaking things is unusual.
The Atlas I spoke of was made in the thirty's and had been in service for 70 years when I missed out on it. I spoke with the old timer who had operated it for the last 50+ years told me in his time it didn't miss a beat! So let's do apples to apples, eh?
 
Pretty surprised to see that Colchester 2500 pulling down the bid it is (currently just over $4K) as it does not seem to have any of the accoutrements that it should have with, steady and follower rests, and chucks, etc.
It looks pretty hard used, from the wear in the paint around the various parts of it. Be interesting to see it in person, and see if the bed looks like it's in decent shape.

The MasterTurn is a big lathe for a home shop! If you got the power to run it, it might be a deal.

Ya, some people have a weird sense of paint schemes.
 
The Atlas I spoke of was made in the thirty's and had been in service for 70 years when I missed out on it. I spoke with the old timer who had operated it for the last 50+ years told me in his time it didn't miss a beat! So let's do apples to apples, eh?

There was only one Atlas, making lathes, so maybe the old guy just didn't know as much as you credit him for.

And really, you wanted a lathe that had supposedly been in use for 70 years? What for? A yard ornament, or you were short an anchor for a dock?

If you want an Apples to Apples comparison, don't bring horse apples (turds) to the table....
 
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Ya, some people have a weird sense of paint schemes.

At one time the Military had a specific color code for all their machinery, and were pretty free with glopping porch paint all over the equipment to make it match, so you end up with various levers painted yellow, the machines painted the same mashed peas green, etc., no matter how good a job the factory had or had not done.
This work was often done by the guys that had not enough leave left at the year end, to be able to take the 'long' version of the Christmas leave that was offered, along with countless hours of painting floors, so the work was usually none too fancy, done by guys that didn't really care as long as it was finished, for people that also didn't care, as long as it got done...

FWIW, the cream color paint beside the chuck on the 2500, was the factory color. It'd be worth a look to see if the paint was stripped off by wear, or if it was stripped off by a reaction to the byproducts of badly managed coolant. It could actually look like hell, but still be relatively low hours.
 
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