Value for Snider Enfield?

Tbolt

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Hi All

I am trying to help out a buddy by finding a value for something he has acquired from a friend who has since passed away.

It is a 2 Band Sergeants Pattern Snider Enfield MkI*

I have seen many MkIIIs but not many Mark I*s

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It also has the bayonet and scabbard.

I don't know enough about this era for value determination.

I have many more pics.

I will be at the VKH gunshow on Saturday with the Snider in tow at my friends table if someone wants to have a look at it.
 
Which bayonet? The spike or the sword?

A Snider conversion on a Sgt.'s 2 band is certainly rarer than an all steel Mk.III so I'd bet somewhere $1000 to $1300 for it in its condition. Bayonet extra.
 
My understanding is that the Mk I* 2-band rifles were very early troop trial rifles that were sent to Canada- a batch of 200. They were upgraded to the improved chamber spec's in Canada and then received the I and * stamps. I also believe that they don't typically have the usual Canadian ownership marks. Definitely desirable and valuable if in good shape.

milsurpo
 
That's probably the max likely market value for a very good one now (in Canadian $). I see them listed for quite a bit more at antique arms dealers in the UK. It would help if you had a few more detailed photos- the cleaning rod is incorrect. For valuation it's important to know if the stock has been sanded and/or refinished. If you ever have it out of the wood you should see matching numbers on the block, shoe, plug, rear sight leaf, etc, assuming it is all original.

milsurpo
 
I do have other photos, any areas in particular?

The cartouche is faint on the right side of the stock but it is there, hard for me to say if it has been sanded or not.

The metal doesn't look it has been touched
 
I have a # 1*. also with a correct square head jag cleaning rod. The breach and ejector are still rounded not flat shouldered like # II,s or III,s. It has DC in a diamond. It has 70 and a rack # on butt plate. Yours has a Martini cleaning rod.
 
My un-DC'd short rifle originally belonging to the Quebec Garrison Artillery has a round-headed cleaning rod. It is stamped crown over 23, and matches all the other bits of the rifle, similarly marked with #23.

Is this wrong?

tac, confused.
 
tacfoley: #1593 in the List of Changes (March 6, 1868) decreed that all future manufacture would be of round-headed rods. If yours is a Mk I* and manufactured much earlier than that your rod could be a later replacement. My own I* has a round headed rod. I don't think upgraded in service is incorrect. All the I* rifles were upgraded by alteration of the formerly rounded recess for the case rim designed for short lived Mk I ammo.

milsurpo
 
Thank you, Sir. My QGA Snider is marked - II** on the breech ring. So it's a replacement, right?

tac

I would imagine a II** could have had the round version as original equipment (I believe they were converted in that final form right up until the new manufacture Mk III's appeared in '69). Tbolt: photos of the markings on the left barrel, receiver ring and block would be helpful. If the roundel is faint it has most likely been sanded as they were pretty deeply struck originally.

milsurpo
 
The mark 1* in good condition "shootable" with the sword bayonet is a rare find indeed, and I would put the value if in premium condition @ around $1,800.00 cdn.

The biggest obstacle is finding a purchaser with the $$$$, in a US gun show or auction in would go fast. Do not give it away it has great value.
 
Snider MKI* Short Rifles are common around southern Ontario.

I own two;

SNIDER MK I* SR 1862 Enfield 70/186 Champlain Battalion
SNIDER MK I* SR 1861 Enfield 82/168 Queens County Provisional Battalion

I have had nine (9) go through my hands in the last two years or so.

Southern Ontario seems to be a hotbed for Snider's for sale, as there where a lot of militia battalions in this centralized area.

For years in the Snider collecting community, MK I* where called BS.

Skennerton's book, "A treatise on the Snider" had no mention of MK I*'s.

Not until 2003, a 2nd publication came out by Skennerton, ".577 Snider-Enfield Rifles & Carbines" which did in fact mention the existence of these rifles.

As read, British Artificers (they are now called "Weapon Techs") in Canada conducted the conversions on these short rifles from MK I to MK I* in late 1866.

There are many papers written on rules and regulations regarding Snider's and Martini Henry.

I have seen many variations of these firearms here in Canada.

Not all meet the standard of regulations for markings, cleaning rod modifications and so on.

I would say that being here in Canada at a militia level of ownership, not every battalion followed these rules and regulations to a T.

For instance, once in the hands of militia rifle clubs, there where odd modifications done to sights.

Moral of my story, we here in Canada liked to do our own thing, even back then.

People will call my statement BS, they had to follow the strict regulations, but I have seen more than my fair share to disagree.

I started the Facebook Snider page to try and bring like minded Snider lovers together.

I have often thought of having people post in a section of your Snider's, as found in Canada.

It would be interesting.

Not to say the least that things where not switched out over the years.

You would think that Snider's would have a huge following in Canada, but they don't.

They where definitely in service for the longest period of time.

Yes, there has been a resurgence of Snider shooters, thanks to the internet.

We can all meet in a common place, just like now.

Tbolt, tell your buddy to hang onto that Snider, it's a true piece of Canandian Military History from days gone by!
 
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I have a two-band five-groove short rifle, butt-stamped QGA and without a DC stamp. Sadly there is no bayonet of either pattern along with it - a surprise birthday gift last year from a shooting pal.

It is a II** - the second * is slightly larger, and may be SOOS stamp, rather than an asterisk. It has an 1862 lock and the short rifle stamp on the lockplate.

Here in UK, any DC-marked Snider is eagerly sought-after, and I count myself very lucky that I have two Canadian Sniders with history.

tac
 
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