Value of an antique Alex Henry 24 ga

[fuzzy39]

Hi all you shotgunners about there. I have been contacted by a fellow who just acquired a lot of guns from an old firearms enthusiast. Included was an all original Alex Henry 24 ga sidelock hammer gun with Damascus barrels. The gun would date from around 1890ish based on my research. It comes with a box with the original loading and crimping tools, screwdrivers and punches, cleaning rod, etc. The felt inside the case is in rough shape but everything else about this gun is pristine. The barrels look like they have never been shot!! He has a bunch of brass as well with the gun (Magtech and some Berdan primed stuff as well).

When I heals the gun, I understood why people make a fuss about English best shotguns!!! Like a magic wand! Lol.

I don’t want to offend with an offer and was hoping someone knowledgeable could give me an approximate value?

Thanks

 

[ParksPipes]

Wow, now that is special !
Lucky you

I have my own ideas of value/price but hesitate to say.
24g how cool ! With all the tools and cased, Awesome!
Underlever puts it likely pre-choke, and earlier than 1890 no ?
Pic of barrel flats would help.
Some patent numbers too.
Shiny barrels on something of that vintage raise a cautionary eyebrow and suggest they should be measured.
They should be measured anyways.
At a glance doesn’t look like a converted rifle.
Do the serials on barrels match the receiver?
Maybe others will know if there is anyway to determine a conversion?
Straight stock suggests original shotgun.

With proper inspection and measurement I imagine it would do very well at some of the specialized auction houses...Morphy’s, Poulins, Holts, etc.
Although even that might not be the highest price it would ultimately fetch as a dealer might snap it up at auction and add another 50% or double it again.
To get a gun like that vetted takes some doing, knowledge and tools or knowing the right people, which isn’t free (what’s the cost/price of experience?).
In my opinion each time it passes a stage and/or changes hands the price rises, unless selling Back to a dealer.
So it costs more each time to maximize the buying market.
I’d say this one has legs though and could continue to climb.

Whatever YOU pay for it will likely be the best price
So pricewise I say at least it has to get started at a couple thousand bucks.

AND This mystery begs another question : WHAT ELSE HAS HE GOT ????? !

 

[ParksPipes]

Yep that’s special, beautiful gun and Goodluck !

 

[canvasback]

Alexander Henry is in the second tier of name British makers. I say British, not English as he was a Scottish maker.

Using a data base of 20 years of American auction results of primarily British hammerless (sidelock and boxlock) guns, I would put this gun as Brand Value 2 (BV, makers name), Original Quality at OQ 5 (hard to choose because the data base doesn't really separate hammer from hammerless) and Current Condition (CC) at CC 3 or 4. That would give it a value in the $3600 to $4700 USD range.

Now please bear in mind, that is US auction results. A much more robust market than what exists in Canada. And points for the original case but take a bunch off for terrible condition. Add more for the rest of the accessories.

I would take that price range and scour GI for similar quality hammerguns and see what the asking prices are.

Others may chime in but my experience is that at a $.75 dollar, a $4000 US gun is a $4000 CDN gun less about 20-25%. So $3000 or a little more.

 

[Ashcroft]

Alexander Henry is in the second tier of name British makers. I say British, not English as he was a Scottish maker.

Using a data base of 20 years of American auction results of primarily British hammerless (sidelock and boxlock) guns, I would put this gun as Brand Value 2 (BV, makers name), Original Quality at OQ 5 (hard to choose because the data base doesn't really separate hammer from hammerless) and Current Condition (CC) at CC 3 or 4. That would give it a value in the $3600 to $4700 USD range.

Now please bear in mind, that is US auction results. A much more robust market than what exists in Canada. And points for the original case but take a bunch off for terrible condition. Add more for the rest of the accessories.

I would take that price range and scour GI for similar quality hammerguns and see what the asking prices are.

Others may chime in but my experience is that at a $.75 dollar, a $4000 US gun is a $4000 CDN gun less about 20-25%. So $3000 or a little more.

Without personally inspecting and measuring, $3000 would also be my ballpark guess for this one but as with all of these unique pieces there is no direct equivalent to compare so it mostly depends on the individual and how important this uniqueness is to them. There are people who will pay well for a rare or unusual patent action and others who will pay above market for a particular maker or feature. In this case the 14 gauge feature, even with all the loading tools is both a blessing and a curse. It adds to the uniqueness and for those that put a monetary value on uniqueness it adds value. For many it would be an unusable oddity because of the bore size and worth less than a 16 or 20 gauge in the same gun. Can’t tell much about the outside of the case other than needing a handle but the interior is much better than most and very restorable. The red baize lining on the inside of the lid can be cleaned and repaired to be very nice and the original label is pure gold. The complete lining on the case box and partitions is pigskin, only used on the most expensive cases by a few of the top Scottish makers. Very very rare and this looks to be easy to clean up to excellent condition, this case can be a showstopper ( again). All the original accessories and loading tools = the icing on the cake. Personally I never buy a gun for display or bragging rights, I shoot my guns and expect to use them - the ones I like the best get used a lot. As much as I really like Scottish guns and the products of Alexander Henry I see this one as a problem child for me because if I owned it and really liked using it the long term feeding would quickly become a problem. And if it fell out of favour it could be a long and difficult proposition to recover my investment at any price. Ah, but if I handled it and fell in love? Good thing it isn’t near me. J.

 

[fuzzy39]

Thanks for all the replies. I was thinking the $3k-$3.5k range. The pics don’t do this justice. It’s amazing!!! He’s got a bunch of berdan primed brass with it as well and a buck of berdan primers and a tool. If I do buy it I know I’ll have to shoot it and hunt with it a few times! Can’t help myself. I have researched a few of these higher end Damascus guns that get reproved for smokeless powder at the British proof houses. I thought that was interesting.

I think I’ll make him an offer!

As far as other goodies… he has a bunch of interesting flintlocks from 1850 range I assume in amazing shape. A perfect brown Bess, an immaculate k98 1942 with all matching except the bayonet which is original. The bore on this looks like it’s never been fired and the magazine follower doesn’t have the original finish off of it!! All the original German insignia is on the would and metal. I may offer something for the k98 haha. I think he intends to eventually take his gun to a dealer for consignment for what he cannot sell locally.

 

[Ashcroft]

A number of things about this gun point to s manufacture date of late 1860’s to perhaps 1880……
- The Jones double screw grip was used extensively on shotguns during this period, tapering off through the 1870’s, especially on very high grade guns like this one.
- The fences are of percussion form, pretty much out of style by 1880 - don’t forget, hammerless guns were coming on strong by then.
- 14 gauge was common and popular in muzzleloaders and retained modest but declining popularity through the pinfire era but were rapidly losing out to our current central fire cartridges by 1870
This was a very high grade gun, almost certainly a bespoke gun made to order for a wealthy customer. As such, he could have had this 1870’s style gun made to his desires in the 1890’s however he would have been both out of fashion and handicapping himself by using this gun at a formal ‘shoot’. PM me the serial number and I will look up the manufacture date in my library for you. J.

 

[fuzzy39]

A number of things about this gun point to s manufacture date of late 1860’s to perhaps 1880……
- The Jones double screw grip was used extensively on shotguns during this period, tapering off through the 1870’s, especially on very high grade guns like this one.
- The fences are of percussion form, pretty much out of style by 1880 - don’t forget, hammerless guns were coming on strong by then.
- 14 gauge was common and popular in muzzleloaders and retained modest but declining popularity through the pinfire era but were rapidly losing out to our current central fire cartridges by 1870
This was a very high grade gun, almost certainly a bespoke gun made to order for a wealthy customer. As such, he could have had this 1870’s style gun made to his desires in the 1890’s however he would have been both out of fashion and handicapping himself by using this gun at a formal ‘shoot’. PM me the serial number and I will look up the manufacture date in my library for you. J.

Thanks for all the info. It’s in 24 ga and I’ll take your word for it on the age… I’m no expert on these by any stretch. It is super cool! I don’t own it yet and cannot send that info. If/when I buy it I’ll send the info to get as much data as possible!

 

[Rwilco]

Wow. Beauty. If you want more brass look up Bilozir.

Consider repairing the bluing.

 

[Ashcroft]

My error, for some reason my brain said 14 gauge, probably because this was more common at one time. 24 gauge is really unusual, probably 2 1/2” as well. At least 24 gauge hulls can be purchased new so it becomes more practical as a shooter. If you do buy this gun be aware that a good part of it’s value is the degree of originality that it retains, any refinishing of wood or metal, repairs, ‘improvements’ all need to be carefully assessed and if undertaken need to be done by the most competent craftsmen available. These things don’t come cheap but if not done so as not to harm the gun and to the same quality standard the gun was made to will cheapen the effect and lower the value. Collectors pay for originality.

 

[fuzzy39]

Wow. Beauty. If you want more brass look up Bilozir.

Consider repairing the bluing.

Thanks for the heads up on the brass. The finish is actually really nice original Damascus with plum colour. The pictures are not very good.

 

[Upland28]

Not sure if this gun is proofed to modern ammo
RST, Fiocchi and Federal load 24 gauge.

https://store.prophetriver.com/rst-24-ga-2-5-3-4oz-shot-7-vel-1100-25ct/

https://www.federalpremium.com/shotshell/federal-upland-waterfowl/game-load-upland/11-N124+8.html

http://https://fiocchi.com/en/catalog/ammo/shotshells/24-gauge.html

 

[ParksPipes]

You may also be interested in Donald Dallas’ book on Alex Henry.
Website shows limited copies available:
http://donalddallas.com/books/alexander-henry-rifle-maker/

 

[sillymike]

Interesting find!

 

[fuzzy39]

So I picked it up tonight!!!!! Probably paid a bit too much. The seller kept creeping up his ask as my excitement grew! Yeah, poor poker face haha. Anyway, the gun is more beautiful than I remembered. The wood is immaculate, metal is perfect. There is the faintest couple of spots of pitting in the barrels but for a ?140 year old black powder gun…. She’s pretty spectacular. Only thing I noted was the left hammer spring was gone which discovered after using the original tool to remove the firing pin and spring assembly. The tools included were outstanding and the case too was in good shape. The wood of the case was perfect and the leather was good. The interior was a bit spotty with the pig leather but overall all the little compartments were great.

I have purchased 7 boxes of RST 24 ga ammo from Prophet River and intend to try that out once I fix the firing pin. These are super low pressure loads designed for these types of guns. That said, there was a black powder recipe included in the box as well so I’ll probably do that too!

What firing pin spring would be optimal for one of these old doubles?

Anyway, enjoy the pics and if anyone out there had more information to date this beauty, let me know!

 

[fuzzy39]

And more…

 

[sillymike]

Yup. she's a beauty!

 

[kamlooky]

Son of a gun.

 

[Stephen Nash]

Fantastic.

 

[mbatten]

Lovely - a rare find indeed!