Value Question

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Glock4ever

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I was looking at a few K98s recently and I thought I would start a thread regarding the value of milsurps in recent years - this is by no means an attack on milsurps just a few thoughts. It seems to me that milsurps have started to get pretty expensive and I am questioning the logic of getting into milsurps. Back in the day, you could get a K98, Garand, Lee-Enfield for a very low price that was reflective of what you are getting (i.e. a used rifle) and it was at the time a great way to get new shooters into the sport. Now I am seeing milsurps going up in price to the point that I question - why would I get one? This doesn't apply to all milsurps as some are still a great deal (i.e. Mosin, K31, etc) but I do wonder why somebody would pay >$600 for a non-collectible K98. It is a bit of a rhetorical question as I understand Supply-Demand. I guess I just don't see the demand for a non-collectible K98 especially when the price is starting to approach a good new rifle's cost. What are your guy's thoughts on this?
 
Its the same with all the milsurps that were available at good prices back in the day, most were bought to be sporterized and used as hunting rifles on the cheap, rather than buying a new Winchester or Remington hunting rifle. The Mosins & SKS's are the same today although I don't think as many are being sporterized, because there are more collectors and history buffs today than there used to be collecting guns.
Nowadays a lot of the collectors want to restore them old K98's & Lee Enfields back to original condition and that drives the prices up because the parts are getting much harder to find.
I regret the day I walked by a barrel full of Garands for a $150.00, I picked up a couple to look at, but put them back in the barrel.
 
freezer filler said:
The cost of a k98 to be built today is more than $600...and they will only go up in value. When you buy a new gun, you suffer a loss automatically which often takes years to recover.
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Except that you can get used Rugers/Winchesters/CRF rifles for pretty close to this price. The Zastavas new are about $7-800. Like I said before I am not attacking Milsurps I just don't understand somebody paying a lot of money for what is essentially a used gun that is all jumbled up parts-wise. As an example, I get a mixed up RC K98 for like $300 but at $730 (recent store pricing) not so much. Maybe I am getting old and walking by a bunch of matching L-E for sub $100, Danish Garands (3 for less for than $500) and other great milsurps has made me jaded. I totally respect the Mosin/K31 and I can even see matching specimens climbing in value but I start scratching my head at non-matching K98, L-E, etc going for a lot of money.
 
Magellann said:
Its the same with all the milsurps that were available at good prices back in the day, most were bought to be sporterized and used as hunting rifles on the cheap, rather than buying a new Winchester or Remington hunting rifle. The Mosins & SKS's are the same today although I don't think as many are being sporterized, because there are more collectors and history buffs today than there used to be collecting guns.
Nowadays a lot of the collectors want to restore them old K98's & Lee Enfields back to original condition and that drives the prices up because the parts are getting much harder to find.
I regret the day I walked by a barrel full of Garands for a $150.00, I picked up a couple to look at, but put them back in the barrel.
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I agree with you on this but I am missing the historical value of what is essentially a parts rifle... Maybe I am missing the forest for the tress :)
 
Glock4ever said:
I agree with you on this but I am missing the historical value of what is essentially a parts rifle... Maybe I am missing the forest for the tress :)
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Even a parts rifle has history. If you want a k98 and a matching specimen is $2500, you can get 7/8 of the experience for less than 1/3 the cost.
 
Glock4ever said:
I agree with you on this but I am missing the historical value of what is essentially a parts rifle... Maybe I am missing the forest for the tress :)
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It is because of the many people like me, who have come back to guns and now want to get in on the whole milsurp experience that we turned our noses
up at 30 or 40 years ago. We are willing to pay fairly well for mix-masters because that is all that is available at a decent price. Real collectors still want quality.
 
I guess I can see the appeal of at least having "something" vice nothing. The prices still floor me but I can see why somebody would want one. I guess I am looking at these parts rifles too much like a poor knock off vice an actual antique
 
Glock4ever said:
I guess I can see the appeal of at least having "something" vice nothing. The prices still floor me but I can see why somebody would want one. I guess I am looking at these parts rifles too much like a poor knock off vice an actual antique
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I really want a genuine Long Branch L-E with everything completely original and maybe even un-issued - but I can only justify spending about $600 right now.
Have to make do with a de-sporterized whatever!
 
It's because of the history, novelty and just plain fun of shooting them that is unlike a new commercial firearm. You can get that same experience from a non-matching less than great condition milsurp same as a matching pristine condition one for a fraction of the price in my opinion. After that it's just supply and demand, as you said.
 
When I was younger I passed by the $14.95 jungle carbines and the $169.95 No 4 T's with transit case in favour of the $70.00 dollar Cooey's and $250.00 model 70's because I wanted the newest and the best. I would like to see anyone get $500.00+ for a Cooey or $6,000 to $10,000 for a model 70 nowadays. Milsurp is what it is, something not made anymore and there is a finite amount of them to be had by collectors. People are buying No 4 stock sets for $300.00+ just to restore a rifle that will never be more than a bitster. In a few years with the UN sticking their noses in and JT following along as their lapdog the days of cheap milsurps that every one says is okay to cut up will disappear too.
 
As a milsurp collector for a lot of years, I remember the old century international catalogue. A lot of younger enthusiasts would get a education of what the guns cost when they were first brought into the country. Maybe someone can scan an old copy and post? When I was young I could buy the cheap milsurps but a new sporter rifle was out of my price range. I think its great to see the old enfields being de- sporterized but I don't feel it makes them a collector the way a original specimen is. The Russian capture K98's are a interesting thing and how they definitely seem to sell at a discount to non RC K98's. As a shooter they should be every bit as good. One thing about the old rifles is that I expect if cared for with still give a lot of years of service. Those new economy sporter rifles with the plastic stock , plastic mag, etc are a great value for $320 but will they be around in 75 years? I don't think so. Work the action of an old SMLE or a mauser and then try a new Axis or Mossberg and you will know what I mean. Gramps cut down lee enfield can still be putting meat on the table in the year 2100.
 
I have been thinking about this very issue recently. Basically it is getting pretty expensive to be collecting, and the prices aren't going down. My collection is primarily 'cheaper' firearms simply because I like to be able to examine and own a variety of firearms.

To put it in perspective, lets say you have 1500$. With that money, you can buy the following. The three most common types of Lee Enfields, No. 1 Mk. 3*, No. 4 Mk. 1*, and No. 5 Mk. 1. You could also buy 4 Swiss Rifles (a year ago I would have said 5 but the prices have been moving up slowly). You could also get about 5 different Soviet firearms (SKS, M91/30, M38, M44, SVT-40, etc.).

The buying power people have is greatly reduced, and that doesn't even include ammo to shoot it. Younger guys with less money, will have a tougher time getting into collecting if that is what they wish to do. The only reason I am even able to collect as a younger guy, is I devote a good portion of my paycheques to my collection (usually at the cost of my drinking fund). Who knows, maybe a couple years of the economy in the tubes, will do something to stop the inflation, however I doubt it.

Having talked with older guys, with Ross collections, and Enfield collections, they even have admitted to me, if they had to start again they wouldn't have been able to afford the collection they have. Simply due to the prices they are currently reaching. Even the less desirable things (which doesn't make them not interesting) like the Carcanos, and Steyr M95s are slowing creeping up in price, due to more people trying to collect those, due to everything else being expensive.

Every year the quantity of milsurps decrease in the world, through purposeful destruction (UN arms treaty, sporterization, tacticooling, etc.), accidental destruction (mistakes reloading, etc.), and acts of god (house fires, etc.). Supply is going down, yet demand is on the rise.
 
My original question was actually spurred by the idea that many bought mismatched milsurps to get into shooting on the cheap. I didn't really consider the "collectors" to be interested in the dregs which is why I asked the question - why buy an old used milsurp for almost the price of a new rifle. I didn't really consider that somebody would want a mismatched mauser for the sake of owning a mauser. When I was new to shooting most milsurps (mausers included) were not very desirable for the typical shooter. I must have turned my nose up at literally hundreds of mausers/garands/enfields. I guess times have changed.
 
As the matching numbers milsurp value gets out of reach for a lot of people the value of the mismatched guns will also rise. Also the cost of the Russian milsurps sks,svt40,and mosins, is going to get out of hand soon as well. I bought a svt40 2 yrs ago for $200 now they are fetching closer to $400. The sks and mosin cost has risen in the last year as well. in a decade a sks may be worth $500. That is if we are still allowed to own one!
 
A "mismatched" Russian captured K98k has a historical collector value of its own as physical representation of the defeat of Nazi Germany in WW2. It is also the only avenue for a lot of the rarer manufacturer codes and dates. In comparison to what all matching vet bring-backs go for, they are a bargain to the new collector who wants to get a real-deal K98k. It's not about its practical utility as a firearm, but the history attached to it.
 
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