Vault, safe, and ammo storage

Cerendrad

Cerendrad

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Hello,

In the past I have kept my firearms in a safe and my ammo in a locked box in the same room. I have recently moved and now have access to a small room with no windows and only one entrance. I have placed a strong door and one of those combination electric deadbolt locks on it.

As I understand it I now have a vault. We are out in the countryside and according to neighbors I will have to deal with the occasional sick raccoon or over brave coyote. Because the vault is like a safe for storage rules I would like to hang my unloaded mossberg 590A1 up on the wall (in the vault) with no trigger lock. I believe it is ok to do so as it is technically in a safe.

My question is, is it also ok to have rounds present in the accessory side holder as pictured below? This way after opening the secured vault I could just take the Mossberg off the wall and load it quickly as the accessory was designed for. This would be great but I also want to be sure I am complying with storage rules.

th
 
You may store ammunition "in the same locked container" as a firearm. A safe would count so I am going to say you are more than likely okay with your vault. You may not store any ammunition loaded in the magazine tube.
 
My thoughts on this and I am only guessing here but if your walls are drywall etc then you really dont have a vault. If that were case, every room in my home would be so as i have locks on every door
 
A locked room is not a "vault".


I'm on an acreage and I keep a .22 handy, but its trigger locked and the mag is separate. It takes me less than 15 seconds to have it ready to fire.
 
Thanks for the response. Do you guys know the exact verbage as to what makes a room a vault. This is like a dry cold room so they are concrete walls.

And no issues with the rounds attached to the side of the shotgun (considering they are in a safe or compliant vault) as long as they are not in the magazine?

Thanks,
 
As far as I know, your room would have to be inspected and approved to be considered good to go and shells cannot be stored in the side saddle. I have four side saddles and sadly they all sit empty when at home.
 
bandicoot said:
As far as I know, your room would have to be inspected and approved to be considered good to go and shells cannot be stored in the side saddle. I have four side saddles and sadly they all sit empty when at home.
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I keep shells in my side saddle in my safe. According to the regs, you may store ammunition in the same container as the firearm, no problem. Some guys keep loaded mags in their safes. Loaded in the tube, or one in the chamber, you may have a problem. But as I see it it's no different than having a box of shells on the shelf in your safe.
 
Ammo in a side saddle is fine, as long as the room is a "vault" or "safe" or whatever. Laws say store it separately OR lock it up. Locked in same container is fine.

If the room meets storage requirements, then having the gun in it without a lock is fine.

The question is whether the room meets requirements. Regs say "room that is difficult to break into" which is pretty damn vague, but I would think a solid door with a deadbolt isn't enough. Is the frame reinforced? You said it has concrete walls, are they floor-to-ceiling? Is the doorframe set into the concrete? Anything special about the ceiling? Most people can kick in a door if it doesn't have a reinforced frame around the deadbolt, and even a little person can make fast work of a deadbolt with a sledge hammer.

If you are not entirely sure if your room is sufficient, you could always get a $15 combination trigger lock, and just leave the combination set, or off by 1. That way, all you have to do is hit the lever and it comes right off, or spin one wheel once at most.
 
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Tarrantula said:
I keep shells in my side saddle in my safe. According to the regs, you may store ammunition in the same container as the firearm, no problem. Some guys keep loaded mags in their safes. Loaded in the tube, or one in the chamber, you may have a problem. But as I see it it's no different than having a box of shells on the shelf in your safe.
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Yeah, you're right. I was thinking storage of the shotgun outside of a safe, like if it was trigger locked in a closet since the ammo has to be stored separate.
 
A lot of questionable opinions given in this thread. Ammo must not be readily accessible. There is no exemption for NR firearms and ammo in the same locked room.
Have a look at this post.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1148370-Ammo-storage?p=10667053&viewfull=1#post10667053

It is good to go back to the source every once and a while to see if the law says what everyone thinks it says. The non restricted storage law has no vault or specially built or modified room clause like restricted and prohibited firearms rules have.

You can read the storage regulations here.
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-209/index.html

1.)Non restricted may be stored in a locked room, but ammo must not be readily accessible.
2.)Restricted may be stored in a locked room specifically constructed or modified for restricted firearms with ammo in the same room.
3.)Chewbacca is a Wookie.
 
Hmmmmm.

Better lock up your ammo.

Is it readily accessible if you keep the ammo right outside the locked door, just hanging in a bandolier above the door perhaps? lol

5. (1) An individual may store a non-restricted firearm only if
(a) it is unloaded;
(b) it is
(i) rendered inoperable by means of a secure locking device,
(ii) rendered inoperable by the removal of the bolt or bolt-carrier, or
(iii) stored in a container, receptacle or room that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into; and
(c) it is not readily accessible to ammunition, unless the ammunition is stored, together with or separately from the firearm, in a container or receptacle that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into.
(2) Paragraph (1)(b) does not apply to any individual who stores a non-restricted firearm temporarily if the individual reasonably requires it for the control of predators or other animals in a place where it may be discharged in accordance with all applicable Acts of Parliament and of the legislature of a province, regulations made under such Acts, and municipal by-laws.
(3) Paragraphs (1)(b) and (c) do not apply to an individual who stores a non-restricted firearm in a location that is in a remote wilderness area that is not subject to any visible or otherwise reasonably ascertainable use incompatible with hunting.
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I feel like there is probably an exploitable loophole in either part 2 or 3 here, but I cant formulate the full thought at this hour...
 
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weasel1 said:
No loophole. Read part C. A vault or safe fits that just fine.
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I disagree. the Regs clearly state "container, receptacle, or room" for the firearm, and then only list container and receptacle for ammo storage. If a room is a container or receptacle, there would be no need to specifically list room in other parts of the regs.

It reads like this : Gun can be in container, receptacle, or room. Ammo can be in container or receptacle with gun, or seperate from gun. Nothing in that says anything about ammo in a room with gun is okay.

The loophole would be if the OP is remote enough to claim his house as a remote wilderness area (part 3) or if he can use part 2. the OP said it was for coyote/racoon purposes, so maybe "if the individual reasonably requires it for the control of predators or other animals in a place where it may be discharged" could be applied for his purposes. Maybe.
 
Thanks again for the help. Leave it to red tape to make something simple really vague and confusing. It would be really nice to see a rewrite of storage laws.

I thought as others that the "vault" would be enough to store them together (in the side saddle). I never realized that the wording is different between restricted and non restricted. In the past I was confident in storing a pistol in a safe with a loaded mag on a shelf in the same safe as being compliant. I don't feel the need any more out here in the country side but I want the shotgun for just the purpose outlined in subsection (2).

I am outside of town limits and well within my rights to discharge the shotgun on my property so I'm ok there.

I'm not in complete wilderness but farmland close to the lake so we see our share of wildlife, even a lynx once. Before I built the house my neighbor had to take care of a pair of coyote that killed his cat (in my soon to be back yard) and then threatened his dogs. Also a couple of raccoon with distemper or maybe rabies had to be dispatched that were sick and acting very strange that same year. I have a dog now and when I was a kid on the farm we had to wake up at night once or twice to shoot an animal, threatening the chickens, that failed to be scared away by the dogs and us (each time they were mangy and sick looking). So I believe I have the right to claim this use as it is my main motivation.

On the other hand the storage isn't really temporary, although when I am away I would move it to a safe inside the vault room.

As far as the vault goes, man that is really vague. Your opinion of the word "easily" in regards to breaking into a room is directly relate able to how good you are at breaking into rooms! That could mean anything from a good strong door with a solid deadbolt to a bomb shelter.

I think just to be safe I'll take the combination lock advice. Just one more stupid thing to get through when you may need the shotgun fast but better safe than sorry.

Thanks again everyone.
 
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