Very pleased with G17s accuracy at 25 yards.

redryder said:
True, unfortunately for a lot of new shooters, they start out with a glock because somebody told them how simple and easy to shoot they are.:rolleyes:
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Considering how difficult they are shoot it`s amazing how well they`ve sold over the years. I guess it`s called sucker marketing. Quite frankly it`s concerning to think that it`s the standard issue sidearm for most police departments.
 
Sititunga said:
Considering how difficult they are shoot it`s amazing how well they`ve sold over the years. I guess it`s called sucker marketing. Quite frankly it`s concerning to think that it`s the standard issue sidearm for most police departments.
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Ya well "centre mass" is pretty big target. lol
 
Thanks to Sititunga and TDC for all the informative and respective posts.

I've been getting very frustrated shooting my Glock17, gen 4. I bought the Magpul videos for dynamic handgun shooting, definitely helped.

I agree with both of you guys. The Glock trigger is hard to master, which I think is due to it's built in safety features. A very light trigger pull can be extremely dangerous in the hands of a novice, or a cop in a tense situation, etc.

I also bought a Glock because of the marketing, and I still believe it to be true - it's the most reliable semi-auto there is, just like an AK rarely if ever fails. However everyone knows that an AK is primitive compared to an AR15, and so the Glock has plenty of valid competition when one is looking for better features, etc.

I'll keep and love my Glock because I figure that if I can learn to shoot it like a pro, then every other handgun will be a breeze to shoot, so ultimately it will be a perfect learning tool. I have to also figure that the 5.5lb trigger probably saved a few lives at the range, I mean can you imagine handing a 1911, with a custom 2lb trigger, to a novice shooter?!

I also bought a .22lr Ruger 22/45 to learn, and I've become very good with it, thousands of rounds shot for very little money.

I definitely want to instal the Ghost Rocket connector, just nervous about screwing it up. It was never mentioned, but if you want to make fast rapid shots it's very helpful.

I also want to be trained by a professional, I'm modest enough to admit I'm a newbie and require instruction.

Great thread, really appreciate it, thanks.
 
Yes a big hats off to TDC and Situtunga. You don't often see two guys who both know what they are talking about, not get into a major pissing match when there opinions don't completely overlap. Respectfull to each others differing views. I think I'll have a Sat morning beer just cus I love you guys so much. LOL
 
Your groups(although good) Sititunga have little practical merit. There is no mention of time, the range is lit, the targets are flat and clearly defined. One hole groups at 25 have no practical purpose, especially if they can't be produced at speed. I have no doubt the vast majority of handguns are capable of such results. The difference is mainly in the operator. That being said, a service pistol doesn't need to be that accurate. Even the gamers don't require such high levels of accuracy. I'm a practical shooter and have little time for precision based handgun shooting. I own service pistols and expect service pistol levels of accuracy with utmost reliability, and haven't been let down yet.

TDC
 
TDC said:
Your groups(although good) Sititunga have little practical merit. There is no mention of time, the range is lit, the targets are flat and clearly defined. One hole groups at 25 have no practical purpose, especially if they can't be produced at speed. I have no doubt the vast majority of handguns are capable of such results. The difference is mainly in the operator. That being said, a service pistol doesn't need to be that accurate. Even the gamers don't require such high levels of accuracy. I'm a practical shooter and have little time for precision based handgun shooting. I own service pistols and expect service pistol levels of accuracy with utmost reliability, and haven't been let down yet.

TDC
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While this might be the case, I just need to know what I`m shooting has the ability to place a shot where I need it. For instance one of the disciplines I shoot is Bianchi. While this is not an ultra fast event, and Dave Savigny aside, I know that I would have trouble scoring x ring shots at 50 yards during the practical stage with a Glock.

I was at the range today shooting a buddies little G26 and the stock trigger on it was phenomenal, I put better groups down range with that at 25 yards with its shorter sight radius and barrel than I was doing with my 17. It`s all in the trigger. When I got home I swapped out the Ghost Rocket connector for the stock connector. I`m shooting a knock down steel match tomorrow, I`ll see how I do with it.
 
Dench said:
Pictures like these remind me of how horrible my handgun accuracy is. :(
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X2

I am not claiming to know crap, but I have taught my wife, 5 sons, the sons countless girlfriends :cool: and new shooters every month. Taking 5 new people out today.

These vids helped.

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Shot the 17 for the first time in a static steel match (not the knock down match that I thought it was going to be) on Sunday. I was mildly impressed - had some sticking issues with my new kydex holster but apart from that not a shameful performance, given that it was my first competitive outing with a Glock. Bottled on the stock connector and replaced it with the Ghost Rocket, just before the match. Shot 3 second times on the Smoke and Hope stage, but will be able to go sub 3 once I've sorted out the holster. Can usually shoot that stage in the 2s per run. All other stages were 3 to 4 seconds but again my speed will improve once the holster is sorted. I must admit I liked the short reset on the Glock and the surprising ability it gave for quick controlled follow up shots. Definitely going to replace the plastic stock front sight with a fiber tritium combo, but keep the stock rear.

TDC you have some good points but I still contest it's not the gun to learn with. Having said that I might now be a Glock convert! :eek:
 
While I agree that the gun has to be "just accurate enough to be effective," Sititunga is a hell of a shot and makes me very jealous!

I need to get my Glock out more.
 
FastFord58 said:
While I agree that the gun has to be "just accurate enough to be effective," Sititunga is a hell of a shot and makes me very jealous!

I need to get my Glock out more.
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Thanks, it was never my intention to blow my own horn when I started this thread. There are many many better shooters out there than me and TDC is obviously one of them. As I am a newbie Glocker the intent of my post was to find out what sort of accuracy people were getting with their Glocks, as I had no idea, and whether the groups my 17 was achieving were good, normal or sub standard. Learning to shoot the Glock has been quite a learning curve and a departure from what I am used to.
 
Sititunga said:
Shot the 17 for the first time in a static steel match (not the knock down match that I thought it was going to be) on Sunday. I was mildly impressed - had some sticking issues with my new kydex holster but apart from that not a shameful performance, given that it was my first competitive outing with a Glock. Bottled on the stock connector and replaced it with the Ghost Rocket, just before the match. Shot 3 second times on the Smoke and Hope stage, but will be able to go sub 3 once I've sorted out the holster. Can usually shoot that stage in the 2s per run. All other stages were 3 to 4 seconds but again my speed will improve once the holster is sorted. I must admit I liked the short reset on the Glock and the surprising ability it gave for quick controlled follow up shots. Definitely going to replace the plastic stock front sight with a fiber tritium combo, but keep the stock rear.

TDC you have some good points but I still contest it's not the gun to learn with. Having said that I might now be a Glock convert! :eek:
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Based on your pics you definitely have a solid grasp of the fundamentals, which is why I'm puzzled about your comments regarding Glocks and first time shooters. I fully admit, that Glocks are not the least bit forgiving to new/inexperienced shooters like other makes. However, with proper instruction a new shooter can and will do just fine with a Glock. For the beginner who wants to make noise and put holes on paper with little thought or effort, the Glock is likely not their best option. For the beginner who wishes to dedicate the time and effort to learn how to shoot, there is no better platform.

As for sights, the factory ones are doable but they are far from ideal. I think Glock could do better in that area.

TDC
 
TDC said:
You're not grasping the concept here. The firearm is accurate, the inherent accuracy of most firearms is far beyond the capability of most users. Glocks are no less accurate than any other pistol on the market. The less than "easy" trigger on them makes it difficult for new and untrained shooters to operate them with any level of proficiency. Its not the gun, its you, the shooter that sucks.

Learning the fundamentals on a pistol with a short and light trigger is ignorant. It fails to illustrate the shooters mistakes and offers a false sense of achievement. Couple that with the reality that 99% of firearms owners have no professional training, and its not surprising that most feel Glocks are inaccurate, or that this add on or that will improve performance. The ironic part of these statements, is that the shooter blames the gun, then feels that more bolt on crap will solve the problem. Never once does the shooter ever believe it is them who needs work. Even though anyone with a firm grasp of the fundamentals can shoot any pistol(or rifle) well regardless of make, model or calibre. The novice or poor shooter still can't see that the problem is him/her.

I've taken two new shooters out in the past month. A coworker who put his ego aside and LISTENED to what I told him. His groups were consistent and respectable at around 5 inches at 7 yards. He had never fired a handgun or any other firearm in his life. Running a Glock 17 with those awful big dot sights. Total rounds fired in his lifetime at this point. About 150.

The second shooter is female, we were at the range not two days ago. Women unlike men have an uncanny ability to LISTEN to instructions and do exactly as they're told. At seven yards she could print a similar 5-6" group with the same Glock 17, and she was shooting rapid fire. As fast as she could reacquire sight picture, she was sending rounds. Four magazines consecutively(I couldn't load them fast enough). Same results were achieved with the AR and iron sights at 25 yards(max distance). Her total round count(in her life) at the end of this trip. 600 combined pistol and rifle.

Poor performance is most likely a result of the shooter. Whether that be due to inexperience or lack of quality instruction, it doesn't really matter. A poor shooter blames his gear or believes he needs special gear to be successful.

TDC
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This is an excellent post.

Actually I feel that all your posts in this thread have immense value to the CGN community.

My first pistol was a G17, I shot horrible groups with it and I blamed the gun. I ended up selling it and ended up with another glock later, a 34. After months of owning it and countless boxes of ammo, I was convinced it too was only "MOT glock accurate" until an experienced shooter used that same pistol to take the black out of the center of a 25m pistol target. It opened my eyes. I asked him and he gave me a ton of constructive criticism and live feedback and my groups tightened up significantly through the day with his coaching.

Before being schooled, I was on the glock bashing bandwagon and I was oblivious to my own faults as a shooter. I had many bad shooting habits, poor grip, bad follow through, I held the gun to tight, bad trigger finger placement, I flinched and I would switch between thumbing and slapping the trigger making my targets look like a shotgunner had been at them.

I kept the glock 34 and I will never sell it, and I still practice regularly to stay mindful of my bad habits and I still can't shoot the glocks like people in this thread... but I practice with it because it forces me to improve... and I love it.
 
jack1021 said:
:( I cann`t shoot my G17, doing really good with my CZ 75 sp 01, but just cannot shoot my G17 right
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Your experience is exactly what contract and myself are talking about. Its all too easy and common to blame gear for the failure. It doesn't have to be shooting either. The fishing rod, the boat, the skis, the clubs etc etc are always the first to be blamed. There seems to be an inherent problem with males that they must absolutely refuse to accept that the problem is them and that anyone who is really good at something, sought PROFESSIONAL TRAINING. Natural ability/talent is one thing, and it can take you only so far. You don't know, what you don't know. Swallowing ones pride(or rather ignorance) is absolutely necessary if you wish to excel at anything. Coupled with professional training and significant dedication to the craft, usually translates into great results. Blaming the tools is a clear indication the user hasn't a clue.

Now, you might ask "but why can I run my CZ and not my Glock?" The answer there is that the CZ is better suited for covering up errors, its more forgiving. Same goes for 1911's. Short crisp triggers and heavy guns will cover up a lot of shooter errors. Unfortunately, it does nothing to help the shooter advance their skill set, and their ability to cover up errors vanishes when shooting at speed. Nothing proves or disproves a shooters grasp of the fundamentals like running a gun fast.

TDC
 
My first introduction to pistol shooting was in Bulls eye practice/competition. Slow deliberate aimed shots at 20 yards. We used target .22 pistols which were generally heavy for their size with light triggers... Okay so far. The mass meant the pistols more or less stay where they're pointed and the lighter triggers mean you won't disturb them to badly if your trigger discipline isn't 100%.

We also had a pair of Walther P22 because some of our members had little arm strength and very small hands. The Walthers were ridiculously light with obnoxiously heavy and inconsistent triggers, the exact opposite of the usual situation. Once I became proficient with the usual pistols, I'd occasionally use the Walther for adversity training. I could still put all of my shots into a 3" group at 20 yards with a double action pull with my weak hand unsupported.

I guess it comes down to what TDC has been saying. Get coaching, learn and practice the fundamentals and the gun doesn't really matter. I can shoot an 85+ on a standard 20yd ISSF precision pistol target with a $1650 Pardini SP, but I can also do it with a wretched little abused Walther P22 (It is faster and easier with the Pardini tho' ).

In retrospect it would probably be better to learn (with a good coach) on a less forgiving platform that enforces the need to be consistent with the fundamentals rather than one that will let you 'cheat' and thereby build in bad habits, a.k.a training scars.

-DF

I'm now a little out of practice (been away from a range for about 2.5-3 years before I joined the local club and bought my own first pistol, a CZ Shadow). I'll be picking up a target .22 to ensure I'm continuing to do my part behind the trigger (it'll be cheaper to feed too).
 
So I took the Glock 17 out again this week, probably the 3rd time. The last 2 times at 20 yards, I could only land 2/3 out of 10 rounds on my full-size 20 yard target (must be bigger then a square-foot).

I was shooting 3 rounds at a time at about 15 yards really trying to take my time. In the beginning I was getting 2 out of 3 shots consistently in the black of the target, as time went on, my aim went to hell. I think it is a flinch. I should have stopped when I thought that was an issue and spent a few min dry firing.

I really want to beat this and start doing better with the Glock. Where is a good place to get 9mm snapcaps online?
 
Sgt.RazorBurn said:
I really want to beat this and start doing better with the Glock. Where is a good place to get 9mm snapcaps online?
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I purchased mine through Ebay (A-Zoom).

When shooting my M&P9 Pro I load 5 snap caps randomly between two full magazines. This will provide you with instant feedback. You'll be more aware of just how hard you're flinching.

I've found that dry fire exercises and starting each range session with my trusty .22 helps significantly reduce my propensity to flinch.
 
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