Yesterday I took some vintage rifles to the range and shot them alongside some modern clones, to see how they would compare.
The Vintage rifles were a genuine, all matching #4T and one of those Mosin Nagant sniper rifles now available for $750. This is a war-time MN mounted with a reproduction sniper scope.
The modern clones were an AIA #4 in 308, wearing a 16X Weaver target scope and a LongBranch #4 that has been rebarreled with a heavy 308 match barrel, chambered with a 303 British reamer. I call this a 308 Brit. It sports a nice 30mm 4-12 scope.
I have not done any load development with any of these rifles. In fact, this was the first time I had fired the Aussie rifle. I just bought it last week. I have fired the #4T once before, just to check it out.
The Ammo
The old vintage rifles got the short end of the stick. The #4T shot some IVI military ball. I assume this is mediocre ammo, at best.
The Mosin Nagant got reloaded ammo using thrown powder charges of 45 gr of 4895 and 147gr military FMJ bullets of .310” (As I type this I realize that would be the same load I would use to make 308Win ammo.) The military FMJ bullets are hardly match grade and thrown charges are not as good as measured charges from my ChargeMaster.
The AIA shot 308 match ammo of both 155MK and 168A-Max These were part boxes of odds n ends laying around the shop. Excellent ammo.
The #4F (this is what I call my fake #4 sniper) got weighed cases, weighed power charges and 155MK and 168A-Max bullets. Also excellent ammo.
The Results.
All shooting was done at 300 yards. The aiming marks were 5” black squares. It is easy to aim a scope at a corner of one of these squares. In the case of the 4X scopes on the oldies, I aimed at the center bottom of the square.
Groups for all rifles were about the same. I shot 11 groups of 5 shots each. The biggest was 5.6” (#4T – IVI) and the smallest was 3.3” (AIA 168A-Max) All groups were over 1 minute and smaller than 2 minutes. I was surpized/pleased withthe groups from the oldies with the 4X scopes and surized/dissapointed with the groups from the modern barrels with target scopes and match ammo.
The next step will be to bed the Mosin Nagant. It is shooting so well, it deserves to be tuned up. Then I will find some better bullets for it, weigh some charges and find what it likes. I might be able to get groups close to 1 minute with it.
The #4 rifles all shot narrow but tall groups. This is typical of the flex in the #4 action. It will require weighed powder charges and some load development, to try to flatten the groups.
Edit: I checked the bedding on the AIA. the barrel seems to be flaoting, with it bearing on the side of the forend. i thought it should have some ip presure, like a #4. This seems very wobbly. I am going to bed it like a #4. Can't hurt, can it?
The Vintage rifles were a genuine, all matching #4T and one of those Mosin Nagant sniper rifles now available for $750. This is a war-time MN mounted with a reproduction sniper scope.
The modern clones were an AIA #4 in 308, wearing a 16X Weaver target scope and a LongBranch #4 that has been rebarreled with a heavy 308 match barrel, chambered with a 303 British reamer. I call this a 308 Brit. It sports a nice 30mm 4-12 scope.
I have not done any load development with any of these rifles. In fact, this was the first time I had fired the Aussie rifle. I just bought it last week. I have fired the #4T once before, just to check it out.
The Ammo
The old vintage rifles got the short end of the stick. The #4T shot some IVI military ball. I assume this is mediocre ammo, at best.
The Mosin Nagant got reloaded ammo using thrown powder charges of 45 gr of 4895 and 147gr military FMJ bullets of .310” (As I type this I realize that would be the same load I would use to make 308Win ammo.) The military FMJ bullets are hardly match grade and thrown charges are not as good as measured charges from my ChargeMaster.
The AIA shot 308 match ammo of both 155MK and 168A-Max These were part boxes of odds n ends laying around the shop. Excellent ammo.
The #4F (this is what I call my fake #4 sniper) got weighed cases, weighed power charges and 155MK and 168A-Max bullets. Also excellent ammo.
The Results.
All shooting was done at 300 yards. The aiming marks were 5” black squares. It is easy to aim a scope at a corner of one of these squares. In the case of the 4X scopes on the oldies, I aimed at the center bottom of the square.
Groups for all rifles were about the same. I shot 11 groups of 5 shots each. The biggest was 5.6” (#4T – IVI) and the smallest was 3.3” (AIA 168A-Max) All groups were over 1 minute and smaller than 2 minutes. I was surpized/pleased withthe groups from the oldies with the 4X scopes and surized/dissapointed with the groups from the modern barrels with target scopes and match ammo.
The next step will be to bed the Mosin Nagant. It is shooting so well, it deserves to be tuned up. Then I will find some better bullets for it, weigh some charges and find what it likes. I might be able to get groups close to 1 minute with it.
The #4 rifles all shot narrow but tall groups. This is typical of the flex in the #4 action. It will require weighed powder charges and some load development, to try to flatten the groups.
Edit: I checked the bedding on the AIA. the barrel seems to be flaoting, with it bearing on the side of the forend. i thought it should have some ip presure, like a #4. This seems very wobbly. I am going to bed it like a #4. Can't hurt, can it?
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