VZ-58L, M305, SKS M4, etc., etc.

I

Iloverevolvers

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It's lucky that I haven't yet received my RPAL, because the waiting period has given me the opportunity to explore all of what are to me a myriad new firearm possiblities.

I intend to purchase only two long guns -- the new 10/22 breakdown version and something else which until just recently I thought was going to be either a mini 14 or an M305. Well, unfortunately for me, chocolate and vanilla aren't the only two firearms flavors. I've discovered there may be other flavors that are just as good, maybe even better.

I had almost decided on acquiring an M305, but the following video entitled "The Top 10: Combat rifles", really through a wrench in the works:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvrG4T2K4sE

As you can see, the M305/M14 is number 10 on that video's list and AK47 is number 1.

I lived in the States through the Vietnam war era as a gun-loving young adult, so I remember much of what was claimed about the M14, M15(was it the 16 at that time, or was it even an AR15?) and AK47 that appears in that video. Basically, I remember from that time that the M14 and its ammo were too heavy to be lugged around the jungles and a real efffort had to be made to keep them clean, but they could shoot through just about anything; the M15 was too prone to a variety of failures and its bullets could be diverted by just about anything and their penetration was nowhere near as good as the 7.62; the AK47 was really king of the hill primarily for its reliability, even in terrible environmental conditions, and it still delivered 7.62 firepower.

On the scale of aesthetics, however, everything is precisely the opposite, IMO. In short, the AK47 is, as Arnold said when he saw Predator's face for the first time, "one ugly motherf..ker"! To me it's actually repulsive.

Anyway, after watching that video and having it remove some memory cobwebs from my brain, I was more than interested in the AK47, but, after further investigation, I have learned that the AK47 and all of its so-called "variants" are prohibited in Canada. However, there's this rifle called a VZ-58L that's at least somewhat similar to the AK and, according to the following video, every bit as reliable:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIRN_XKMyhI&feature=relmfu

The same man also has a video in which he breaks down both firearms:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TexeQ0QPFU&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PLF2F5B7D4D0B84429
Again, in it he claims that the (19)58 is every bit as reliable as the (19)47.

After having watched the disassembly of the 58 just one time, I believe that if I were handed one right now, I could disassmble and reassemble it with no problem. I can not say that about the M305, even though I have seen a video of it being disassembled a couple of times. In short, it looks like a dream to clean and maintain and it's not the least bit, shall we say, finicky or "high maintenance".

I don't really know enough about the SKS M4 to say anything about it other than that I like the way it looks! ;)

I have to say right off the bat that I'm not a hunter, nor am I concerned about precise accuracy at great distance. I don't care if a firearm is 0.75" MOA or 3" MOA at 100 meters.

Most of all, I care about reliability of fire (hence my choice of username), but I definitely want a semi-auto long gun, rather than the ultimate reliability of say a bolt-action. I want lots of reliable shots and I want them fast.

I must also admit that I'm concerned about the price and availability of surplus 7.62x51 ammo versus 7.62x39, the latter of which seems both plentiful and very inexpensive.

So I'm writing this to get some comments from owners of these firearms -- particularly from owners who own more than one of them.

From owners of the 58L I'd particularly like to know about its reliability and, if it is very reliable, did this help you accept how it looks? I mean, once again with feeling, I find that firearm ugly! (But some of the most beautiful cars are the most unreliable PsOS and, after you've been robbed by them a few times at the dealership, they get ugly really quick. I'm hoping an butt-ugly, cheap to shoot, ultra-reliable firearm can have the oppostite effect.)

Anyway, please educate me! I'm not "invested" in any way, shape or form in any make or model of firearm, so please feel free to fire at will (poor Will). If you've had the time to plow through this post to this point, I'm sure you've got what it takes to reply to it.
 
Step away from the keyboard and go buy a VZ58 RIGHT NOW.

No, seriously, do it. You'll never regret it. The cheapest black rifle ammo you can get (excluding .22) and virtually bombproof. I own many rifles but the VZ58 would be the one I would go to if my life depended on it.

Can't be beat for the money... Some would say it can't be beat for any money.

I should ad, your post belongs in the Red Rifle section 2 down from this one, endless supply of VZ58 love there.
 
Doesn't matter what you say...I can almost guarantee you will end up owning ALL of the rifles you are deciding on....I do and they are ALL great fun rifles....This hobby is WAY to addictive to just own 2 long guns.....You may not own them all at the same time..but you will own them all.....If you can somehow stick to just 2...Well then you have some CRAZY willpower!!...Haha!!!.....WELCOME to the addiction!!!
 
^X2

I have to agree, I started with an SKS, I currently own a M305 with some goodies, as well as a Mini-14. The VZ58 is on my next to get list, All of them have been nothing but reliable and a blast to shoot. You can't just have one!
 
snipz said:
Doesn't matter what you say...I can almost guarantee you will end up owning ALL of the rifles you are deciding on....I do and they are ALL great fun rifles....
Click to expand...

Heh, quoted for 100% truth. Yep, what Snipz says... at some point you'll end up owning all those rifles... but the VZ58 will probably be the one you'll never sell.
 
I did not realize that this thread should have been started in the Red Rifle forum, so, sorry about that, and would a moderator please move it to that forum, if possible?

Thanks for the replies so far, guys!
 
My shooting partners always correct me when I give them a list of firearms and say, "which one of these should I buy"? They always give me a concerned look and go, "you mean, which one shoul you buy first. Right?". Haha

Anyways, vz gets my vote. Fun, cheap, good cool factor
 
As soon as I saw a vz58 in a gun shop, I knew I had to have one. It was my first rifle purchase and I have absolutely no regrets. If SHTF I'd reach right past my AR 15 and grab my vz58.
 
I just checked the Marstar forum and it seems that they no longer sell the VZ-58L, but maybe I'm wrong on that. If I'm not wrong, first, who sells them and second, of those that sell them, who's got one in stock?
 
Iloverevolvers said:
I just checked the Marstar forum and it seems that they no longer sell the VZ-58L, but maybe I'm wrong on that. If I'm not wrong, first, who sells them and second, of those that sell them, who's got one in stock?
Click to expand...

I had a Vz58L. From what I understand, they were a limited run with non-restricted-length chrome barrels. I had nothing but problems with mine, and apparently my experience was not unusual.

On the other hand, I have a non-restricted, unchromed Cz858, which has been awesome. A standard length restricted chrome-barreled Vz58, which has been awesome. An 11-inch restricted chrome-barreled Vz58, which has been awesome. And, a 7.5-inch restricted chrome-barreled Vz58, which has been awesome (except for a broken piston, which was replaced under warranty).

Are you seeing a pattern here? Vz58's, EXCEPT for the 58L, are awesome! Go buy a few :)
 
Pistolwhiptricks, thanks for the contact.

CobraGT, thanks for writing about your experience with the L. Is the CZ858NR essentially the same gun as the VZ-58 and if so, why the different model number?
 
Of the ones you've picked, another vote for the CZ858.

I held off on one of these. Wasn't really into the combloc thing. Well it goes to the range more than any of my other firearms these days. I recall my first day with it at the range and out of 4 shooters 3 of us had a CZ858. Ammo is cheap. I like the recoil on it. The trigger on mine is good. If I shoot off a bench (not really benched) hitting a metal hanging gong at 200 meters is pretty easy. Plus the rifle is pretty darn handy shooting standing. Mag changes aren't as slick as an AR and don't bother with optics. But overall it's a robust rifle that's handy, very reliable, fun and cheep to shoot. Much nicer to shoot than the SKS.
 
Iloverevolvers said:
Pistolwhiptricks, thanks for the contact.

CobraGT, thanks for writing about your experience with the L. Is the CZ858NR essentially the same gun as the VZ-58 and if so, why the different model number?
Click to expand...

CZ858 and Vz58L were manufactured by different companies, but I don't believe either was CSA (one was CZH, I think). The 858 is non-restricted, non-chrome barrel, while the 58L was non-restricted, chrome-lined barrel.

The 58L was basically the same gun as the very first Vz58s to come into canada, but with a nonrestricted-length barrel. I was told that they were built with old, longer chrome-lined barrels originally made for a Vz58 squad-automatic weapon variant, but I have no idea whether this is true.
 
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The evolution of firearm ownership.

first firearm. .22 rifle
2.Shotgun 12g
3. SKS 7.62
4. NORC M14
5. CZ 858 7.62
6. AR-15 .223
And thats just some what tactical long guns.

Out of all my firearms the CZ 858 is my first choice when going out for a shoot. Cheap to feed and built like a tank. My go to firearm. But I also love my 12g nothing like a boom stick.

Now if they would just re-class the AR platform to NR I would shoot it just as much as my CZ. Nothing better than a CZ and a AR slung on each shoulder.
 
Nisser17 said:
The evolution of firearm ownership.

first firearm. .22 rifle
2.Shotgun 12g
3. SKS 7.62
4. NORC M14
5. CZ 858 7.62
6. AR-15 .223
And thats just some what tactical long guns.

Out of all my firearms the CZ 858 is my first choice when going out for a shoot. Cheap to feed and built like a tank. My go to firearm. But I also love my 12g nothing like a boom stick.

Now if they would just re-class the AR platform to NR I would shoot it just as much as my CZ. Nothing better than a CZ and a AR slung on each shoulder.
Click to expand...

To those of you who own several firearms and have stated clearly that the 858 would be their SHTF "go to" gun, thanks! That's what I needed to hear. I'm now convinced that the 858 will be my second gun, although it may in fact be my first gun, because the break-down 10/22 is apparently slower making it into Canada than Cheney's new heartbeat.

Now that that issue is pretty much decided, I'm going OT, so now's your time get going while the going's good.

I've quoted the above because my evolution of gun ownership, probably solely because of my age, has been quite different than what a new gun owner will experience. For anyone who's bored enough to be interested, here it is:

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7052900&postcount=1

To me, the more firearms one owns, the bigger the hassle factor in every sense, particularly if one has not yet "settled down". For example, although I don't really mind cleaning a firearm I've just used, I do consider it a chore rather than a pleasure. I don't like solvent vapors, so to me it's a task that should be undertaken either under a range hood or outside. I would consider having to clean a number of firearms that I've lugged to the range and fired on a particular day to be too close to "work" to be fun.

So to me, one gun good, two guns less good, etc. The more guns in the safe, the more will probably end up being "safe guns". But maybe the gun used today won't be the one used next time, so I can see at least some logic to owning more than one firearm. (But now you need more than one cleaning kit; more than one caliber ammo, a bigger safe, etc.)

So, as I said in my original post in this thread, my wife and I will be owning only two long guns for probably the rest of our lives, although, who knows, if I run into someone at the range who's got a whatever and it's nice to shoot, etc., maybe the urge to buy another will overcome my stinginess and good sense, but I doubt that will happen.

The 22 will be the real fun gun in every respect. I hope it's as reliable as folks claim because if it isn't, bye bye 10/22 and hello something else. Again, my loyalty to a firearm is directly proportional to its reliability.

The 858 will also be a fun gun at the range, but, most of all, it will be the SHTF firearm. BTW, in that latter regard, what spare parts would be the most likely to fail on the 858 -- the piston, as someone mentioned earlier? Any others?

(But after all I've said :D, maybe a cheap, used, bolt-action centerfire something and a box of ammo would be a good, last-ditch, SHTF gun, too. Dust-collector...... until it's needed.)
 
I have a CSA VZ58 in 556/223 great little gun with a red dot on it

I am waiting patiently for my CZ858 with the Canadian wood furniture from Wolverine supplies

They are great guns
 
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