Walther P1 magazine is too short

[red_bailey]

I picked up a magazine for my Walther P1 (here on the EE), but I'm having some problems. It will not feed rounds in the gun: the slide just rides right over the waiting cartridge and never touches the case. If I press in on the bottom as it's in the gun, it will make contact with the case, but feeding is not reliable. I obviously can't shoot while constantly maintaining pressure, anyway.

Take it out to measure, and sure enough, the height of the magazine body is 2 or 3 millimetres shorter than the ones which work just fine. Look pretty near identical, otherwise.

Now I don't know much about Walthers, but I know that P1 and P38 mag.s are the same thing, right? They never made any changes during the run?

The ones I have that work are marked with the Walther logo, then P38 9mm. This new one is marked in the same place Walther 9x19. No other markings, such as on the base-plate, aside from some have a serial along the back. All hold 8 rounds of 9mm Luger.

One other difference is the new one has an extra notch half-way up to act as a magazine catch.

The pistol is a P1 with I'm thinking 77 as a date marked on the frame and slide (it's not here with me now).

What I can guess is that this is a magazine designed for a different model of Walther pistol. Does anyone know which one?

Next question is why would Walther make two nearly identical mag.s and not mark it?

 

[MTF]

I don't know what pistol your odd mag fits, but as far as I know, all the P-38 variations used the same grip frame dimensions and magazine. I have no idea which Walther the mag is for (P-5/P-5Compact??). Maybe if you sent pics, someone could identify it. There's a man in the US who does a lot of older Walther stuff, and if you Google a search for Walther technical help, he might be able to tell.

 

[357_fan]

What kind of ammo are you running? The P1 that I had was perfect for functioning with AE 124gr FMJ.
Any of the stubbier rounds I tried (any 115gr) would cause a FTF. Try that mag with some of the longer and pointier ammo.

 

[robin2y]

Notch half way up from the bottom? These are heel caught... ...only different manufacturer swap that I know of that is supposed to work (except slide lock w/o follower change) is 9mm HK p9s, which is also heel caught.

Might be modified for duty in P5? pics would help... ...do the lips for the floor plate look factory bent? The P1/P38 mag is supposed to hang out 2-3 mm of a P5.

I've heard of swapping p38 mag catch into a p5 so that it will take the longer mags w/o mag body modification, perhaps somebody went the other route...

R

 

[red_bailey]

Yep, here's some pictures:

Working P1 magazine on left, mystery mag. on right.

Only markings.

Length difference (other dimensions reasonably identical).

I labelled some stuff.

I wasn't able to dredge up much by searching before I posted here. Someone says a Smith & Wesson Model 39 copied the P1 mag.? This is clearly a Walther mag., however. Given the hint of a P5 (I know next to nothing about Walthers), it does seem they use very similar mag.s; pictures of P5 mag.s on the web show them marked as P5, however, and lacking the catch notch. Apparently there was a version of the P5 with a modern thumb mag. release?

Last question is, do you think it's likely someone will give me at least $25 for it, so I can get out what I paid for it? Easier than returning it to the seller.

 

[gnmontey]

P1 Officers model?

M

 

[elektrobug]

That's a P5c magazine. The P5 compact pistol had an American style mag catch.

 

[MTF]

I agree with "elektrobug". The mag appears to be a P5 Compact mag. The P5 Compact had a button release behind the trigger for the magazine.

 

[red_bailey]

Okey dokey, it does indeed appear that I was sold a Walther P5 Compact magazine, mistakenly mis-identified as a P38 / P1 mag. Nuts.

As I understand from my over-night Walther pistol variations expert course, the mag.s for the P5 and P5C are dimensionally the same. Functionally the presence of the catch notch means it can be used in either model, whereas a missing notch would preclude compatibility with the thumb release types. Any dissenting opinions?

Just trying to figure out if I complain to the seller, or just post it up on the EE and get my money back that way. While the P5s are a nice James Bond -pedigreed gun, the longest factory barrel configuration of 90mm lands them all squarely in 12(6) territory. Lots of P5 owners out there, you think?

Maybe I got lucky and the P5 mag. is a rare and valuable beast?

 

[MTF]

I don't know if P38 mags are supposed to work in P5s, and vice versa, but apparently yours does not. I doubt there are many P5 owners around. The gun was kind of the last P38-type gun (same locking system), but it was never very popular and rather quickly went out of production. If it were me, I'd talk to the seller.

 

[elektrobug]

I don't know if P38 mags are supposed to work in P5s, and vice versa, but apparently yours does not. I doubt there are many P5 owners around. The gun was kind of the last P38-type gun (same locking system), but it was never very popular and rather quickly went out of production. If it were me, I'd talk to the seller.

Actually that is incorrect. The pistol was quite popular in Europe with the German and Dutch police forces. It was a lower cost alternative to the HK P7 pistol in Germany and the Dutch police just recently started replacing their P5 pistols with a new P99Q. Other smaller European countries used them as well. In regards to production they started around 1978 for the German police trials and were produced in large numbers into the late 90's as well as some limited production for police contracts into the late 2000's.

Also there are a few variants that are rare but restricted. The main one being the P5 with special long sport barrel. Only a a few dozen were made and last retail price in USA was $6,000. Its one of the most rare modern Walther pistols.