Wanted a Vendor who manufactures cast lead .30 Carbine?
- Thread starter Garand
- Start date
I second the Campro plated .30 carbine bullets. Inexpensive and easily available.
I finally found a 3 gun match that I could fit in with all the other matches I shoot earlier this year I was having a great time with the M1 Carbine, until......!
The last stage was a 55 rd assault stage. Luckily I had 11 mags! Everything was just flowing smoothly until the 51st rd. This was the first match that I used powder coated cast lead bullets in the Carbine. I'm still not sure of the problem but the action went forward, picked up a rd, seating it in the chamber, when I squeezed the trigger nothing, tried to eject the round and the action froze solid. I finished the stage with the Series '70 after handing the carbine to the RO.
The Carbine receiver was very, very warm, I used one of the wooden props (a 2x4) to get the action open and the cartridge case extracted, spilling powder everywhere and the bullet stayed in the chamber and I had to use a squib rod to clear it out. This was my first match using powder coated bullets and frankly I'm not too impressed. I've been shooting these bullets with no problem in slow fire practice for the last few months. My best guess is that as the receiver warmed it melted the powder coating and left a residue, preventing the cartridge to completely seat in the chamber
Can't say enough good things about Cam Pro bullets, probably why I have 2x 500 rd bags on the shelf in my garage waiting to be reloaded. In the 3 gun/PCC matches I shoot, some of the reactive/non-reactive steel targets are within 15-20 yards and I find that cast lead bullets are less of a ricochet problem.
The last stage was a 55 rd assault stage. Luckily I had 11 mags! Everything was just flowing smoothly until the 51st rd. This was the first match that I used powder coated cast lead bullets in the Carbine. I'm still not sure of the problem but the action went forward, picked up a rd, seating it in the chamber, when I squeezed the trigger nothing, tried to eject the round and the action froze solid. I finished the stage with the Series '70 after handing the carbine to the RO.
The Carbine receiver was very, very warm, I used one of the wooden props (a 2x4) to get the action open and the cartridge case extracted, spilling powder everywhere and the bullet stayed in the chamber and I had to use a squib rod to clear it out. This was my first match using powder coated bullets and frankly I'm not too impressed. I've been shooting these bullets with no problem in slow fire practice for the last few months. My best guess is that as the receiver warmed it melted the powder coating and left a residue, preventing the cartridge to completely seat in the chamber
Can't say enough good things about Cam Pro bullets, probably why I have 2x 500 rd bags on the shelf in my garage waiting to be reloaded. In the 3 gun/PCC matches I shoot, some of the reactive/non-reactive steel targets are within 15-20 yards and I find that cast lead bullets are less of a ricochet problem.
fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta Cowboy Ranges
There can be other problems using PC or cast in a carbine besides Garand's experience. I have never had the problem but have read of others having this happen...some carbine barrels, when the gas port is drilled will have a slight deformation of steel when the drill bit breaks thru and this metal can snag/grab very small amounts of lead or PC coating and eventually plug the gas port so as to restrict action movement. Easily remedied but you need a special "castle nut tool" to remove the popet nut.
The barrel on my carbine ( a change-over to non restricted length) doesnt seem to have any maladies that catch residue nor have I had any problems like Laurence described but I have never run long stings of rapid fire neither.
Actually Doug I tried to use those .309" 100 grain powder coated bullets in my 1901 Winchester M94 .30WCF to make gallery rounds, total failure. When closing the lever to chamber a round, the lever stopped about a quarter inch from closure. The lever had to be smacked for the action to finally close. I mic'd the bullets at .309" so this should not have happened.
Last edited:
fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta Cowboy Ranges
Its prob not the slug dia that is causing the problem, probably the cast bullet ogive is fat and wont chamber a round with the extra thickness of the PC....you can probably see land impressions in the coating if you look close.
The wife & I and another couple load for 4 different .30WCF's on my equipment and we need a different configuration of bullet for all 4 of them. All will chamber .309 shank dia slugs but some will only chamber wax lubed wile some will chamber PC slugs. A couple will load one PC slug but not the other.
These rifles all have a different free-bore that will make a difference but we have also discovered that molds can vary even from the same manufacture. We have slugs from Bruce and some from Prairie Projectiles that are cast on the same type of commercial casting machine but they have different ogive shapes, likewise with my hand cast's from Lyman or Lee molds, different ogive shape.
Sometimes with certain slugs, you can seat deeper than the crimp ring and still have enough front riding ring to crimp into for them to be workable but sometimes a mold will have such a thin riding ring that the crimp misses any grip on the lead...usable in a load one & shoot scenario but not if using the magazine.
The wife & I and another couple load for 4 different .30WCF's on my equipment and we need a different configuration of bullet for all 4 of them. All will chamber .309 shank dia slugs but some will only chamber wax lubed wile some will chamber PC slugs. A couple will load one PC slug but not the other.
These rifles all have a different free-bore that will make a difference but we have also discovered that molds can vary even from the same manufacture. We have slugs from Bruce and some from Prairie Projectiles that are cast on the same type of commercial casting machine but they have different ogive shapes, likewise with my hand cast's from Lyman or Lee molds, different ogive shape.
Sometimes with certain slugs, you can seat deeper than the crimp ring and still have enough front riding ring to crimp into for them to be workable but sometimes a mold will have such a thin riding ring that the crimp misses any grip on the lead...usable in a load one & shoot scenario but not if using the magazine.
This is my guess as well. I PC most all of my handgun bullets and find them to be utterly reliable even under rapid fire conditions. However, I have had a couple of instances of exactly what you described, one at a pin match where I was using 230 gr. Lee RN PC'd bullets. I had been using Berry's 230 gr. RN plated bullets but bought the Lee mould and wanted to try those instead. i cast the bullets, PC'd them and loaded them exactly like the Berry's (same powder, same load, same OAL). At the match I dropped the slide to chamber the first round....jam! After some judicious effort to get the slide open out came the case but the bullet was still lodged in the bore and had to be tapped out. After some examination it became obvious that the ogive on the Lee bullet was rounder and fatter than on the Berry's despite the diameter and length being the same. The simple solution was to seat the Lee bullets a little deeper so that they did not engage the lands. After that they worked without any problems.
I had the same issue with my 9mm JR Carbine. Berry's 124 gr. plated 9mm ran flawlessly in it but my Lee 125 gr. round nose PC'd bullets jammed in the chamber. Again, the Lee ogive was rounder and fatter than the Berry's ogive. Same problem, same solution. Seated the bullets a little deeper and the issue went away. Strangely, the exact same Lee 125 gr. rounds that jammed in the JR ran as reliably as the sun coming up in my CZ 75 Tactical Sport pistol.
As fingers284 has correctly noted, different firearms chambered for the same cartridge will not always reliably chamber the same dimensions of ammunition. That's why SAAMI recommended OALs are only a guide and even cartridge chamber gauges don't always guarantee reliability because bullets of the same calibre and weight may have widely varying ogive shapes which can affect consistent feeding.
Considering that you got off 50 similar rounds without issue my guess is that the faulty round was just marginally longer than the others but enough to jam it into the lands causing the stoppage. The PC coating just exacerbated the situation. Seating the bullets lightly deeper should solve the problem.
The 50 rds were only what I fired during that stage. I eventually worked my way through the 1,000 PC bullets that I purchased with problems every 3-4 5 rd mags I put down range. As previously stated I'm just not sold on Powder coating for semi auto firearms especially after hearing Doug's experiences.
- Location
- Nova Scotia
Chances are they're not resized after powder coating.
You can't resize the part of the bullet that is (very likely) giving him trouble. This is a common issue with molds not designed for PC. The solution is often to seat deeper so it doesn't jam into the rifling, or if you can't for whatever reason then you need a different bullet profile or just go back to conventionally lubed bullets. M-1 Carbines can be pretty picky with OAL so I can see why he wants the latter.
Obviously YMMV but I have been shooting PC'd bullets almost exclusively for the past 3-4 years, the vast majority in semi-autos (both handguns and long guns) with minimal issues and the very few problems I had were, as I noted above, related to bullet shape, not the PC. I note that you bought the PC'd bullets and did not make them yourself. That makes it harder to pinpoint issues with the possible variables. I cast my bullets, size them, PC them and then size them again (yeah, I'm a little bit OCD) so I am pretty confident in their consistency.
fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta Cowboy Ranges
Id the same, its just part of the process of loading cast for me now. it assures concentricity of slug coatings
vagrantviking
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- High River, Alberta
You can size just the nose of a bullet but that sort of thing is reserved for weird chambers that you don't want to modify the throat on like valuable 1880's target rifles. It's a hassle.
Certainly not something to do with bulk 30 carbine bullets. The answer is to use uncoated bullets or a coated one with a different nose profile. Assuming that it isn't coating build up in the chamber that is the problem.
I shouldn't have made an absolute statement, that's right. I have had this same issue with several different bullet profiles. It's impressive how jammed the bullet can get. I have pulled out .45 and 9mm bullets from the cases trying to fix the situation just as the op had to do.
My only solution was to seat deeper, which worked for the .45, or change profiles, which was my fix for 9mm. I am not aware of any conventional and/or widely available sizer that will fix this problem. I have not had this issue simply using molds specifically made for PC bullets. I wouldn't expect to of course, but yeah.
My only solution was to seat deeper, which worked for the .45, or change profiles, which was my fix for 9mm. I am not aware of any conventional and/or widely available sizer that will fix this problem. I have not had this issue simply using molds specifically made for PC bullets. I wouldn't expect to of course, but yeah.
Seating depth is not the problem, the OAL of a 100 grain cast lead bullet in a .30-30 is vastly different when you compare it to loading a 175 grain cast lead projectile in a .30-30 in OAL. Both measure at .309" diameter.
OK? What has that got to do with your M1 Carbine problem? If you don't understand by now I doubt anyone can help you. Buy some ridiculously overpriced bullets from Bullet Barn and move on.
