"War Bring Backs"

Andy

Andy

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So how do we verify if in fact a firearm was a "Bring Back"? The word of the seller? Lack of an import mark?

We know the many stories that a rifle was "The one my grandfather used in the war" when it is in fact one bought at Eatons and "Like the one he used in the war".

These firearms often are sold at a premium, and disagreeing with family folklore usually brings an angry response.
 
Pretty tough to document this. I have 3 handguns that my late uncle brought back from Europe in 1945. I also have 1 piece that I purchased from a veteran as well as another that I purchased from a veteran's daughter. At some point you have to accept someone's word for it in the absence of any documentation. Obviously you can screen out any firearms with post-war markings, like the Russian capture stuff, import stampings and markings of the East German police etc. Mis-matched pieces are also questionable.
 
"Buy the Rifle, Not the Story"

I have bought several firearms from vets that they brought back from WW2 but have never paid a Penny more for the story.

Only a Moron would pay more for a story.
 
I am guilty of buying the story and of course passing it on later. It can be very embarrassing but that is part of the fun I guess.

Recently I came a across a family with some heirlooms their father had left behind. One was a No4 MkI* Savage made in 1944. Nothing special about it normal wear and tear from field use but well taken care of after the fact. The other was a P38 cyq. They insisted their father had taken the pistol from a "dead German" he had killed with the No4. After a bit of research I found that the rifle had been purchased from T Eaton Co in the early sixties. It was pretty easy to figure that one out, the bill was wrapped and stuffed into the butt. The pistol had been purchased from Robinson's in Victoria in the early seventies. Again, the box with the bill was present. The family was devastated, especially the daughter. I asked her if her father had told her the stories about the firearms and she admitted she was only surmising how he got them. It was an interesting story though.

Many moons ago I bought a very nice byf44 Kar98 from a fellow that told me he had taken it from the back of a German truck during WWII. Well, because I knew he had gone to Europe in 1944 and seen action, proven with pictures, I believed what he told me. OOOOPs he was greasing the pole on that one. The rifle turned out to be one of those lovely post war German Police refurbs. I didn't know enough at the time to tell the difference. I still have that rifle. It is a tack driver and still in VG to EXC condition. I have kept it to remind myself not to buy stories. Well almost. I was tempted to sell it here on the EE until it was very politely pointed out to me what it really was.

I am not sure what the circumstances were about bringing home war souvenirs such as capture rifles. I have had a couple of Kar43s with duffle cuts and a couple of Kar98s with duffle cuts. I can't see any other reason to make such a cut on a rifle.

I would love to be able to dive in the areas the returning troop ships arrived at. The sea floor must be littered with relics that were tossed over the side to evade being found during inspection before getting off the ship.
 
It may be nigh impossible to establish a credible provenance for a war 'bring back'. I'm sure that there was quite a market for battle field pick ups amongst Allied soldiers, the guns passing through many hands in the process.

Way back when I just HAD to have one P-08 in my collection, it was impossible to find one that didn't come with a version of - "My Father/Uncle took it off an SS/Wehermacht Officer". There are pics of Allied soldiers accepting the surrender of German troops with PILES of holstered pistols, rifles and SMG's heaped up.

I settled for one with an "arsenal refinish" that had retained all it's numbered parts. God only knows it's provenance .....
 
I like the old stories, adds a little flair to what's probably a very common firearm. Would I expect someone to pay more for my Grandfather's Service Revolver? Not really, it's not their grandfather, doesn't make sense.

Coolest firearms "history"? I have a shotgun that allegedly belonged to the Black Donnelly's given to me by the husband of one of their descendants. The guy who gave it to me doesn't have a clue whether or not it's true, but I'll pass on the story when it's time, who's to say I'm wrong!
 
Veteran I worked with once told me that prior to disembarking in Halifax after the war they were told if they were caught with contraband handguns and smgs etc., they'd be sent back to Europe for another tour in occupying duty. He said there was "plunk, plunk, splash, splash" into the harbour all night long.
 
It needs to be understood too that Vets were not allowed to keep their rifle at the end of their service - much of their uniform yes, firearms, no.

That myth alone has allowed many of these stories to be perpetuated.
 
I'd keep a copy of the alleged story with the rifle as a point of curiosity but to me it isn't worth more than the paper it's printed on. Claiming stories like these are verified is a shot in the dark at best. Even a letter from the person who allegedly brought it back could be fake. Even the most believable stories I always approach with a grain of salt.

I would tend not to challenge the story in front of the person if I really want to buy the firearm. If they want an outlandish price because of the story I'll just walk away; let someone else deal with them.

The worst ones are when the story is impossible but the person doesn't know enough to know it. I talked to one guy claiming he had a "certified" Colt SAA in .45 Colt that was "confirmed" to have been used during the US civil war. He had letters to "prove" this all to be true. The revolver looked old enough to possibly be an original SAA but I'm no expert on them; I don't know if he was a liar or just very gullible (he wasn't trying to sell it, he as just gloating). A friend of mine who was there made some time-travel jokes but the guy never picked up on it.
 
Coyote Ugly said:
"Buy the Rifle, Not the Story"

I have bought several firearms from vets that they brought back from WW2 but have never paid a Penny more for the story.

Only a Moron would pay more for a story.
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If that is the case, then I readily admit to being a moron.

In two cases I have bought Japanese rifles from vets who have claimed to have brought them back from specific battles.

It is these battles I have an interest in, the guns are merely artifacts thereof.

In each case I tried to conduct my due diligence prior to purchase, including executed, sworn affidavits. One was purchased from a retired law enforcement officer who was awarded a bronze star. The other was purchased from a gentleman moving into an assisted living facility, one which did not allow firearms. Both are in their 90's.

Could either rifle be something other than represented. Absolutely. Without actually being present to see that what is being claimed is true, anything is possible.

I would like to think that I have done all I can to minimize the possibility.

This is a great hobby that allows both shooters and collectors many different avenues to pursue their interests.

I think that characterizing one segment of the hobby who may conclude that a "story" adds value to a particular item as a "moron" is both presumptuous and arrogant.
 
Soldiers are great at smuggling stuff. When I was in the army, most of my NCOs were WW2 vets. There were quite a few that had MP40s, Lugers etc. They had smuggled them back after the war.
 
ajagcapt said:
If that is the case, then I readily admit to being a moron.

In two cases I have bought Japanese rifles from vets who have claimed to have brought them back from specific battles.

It is these battles I have an interest in, the guns are merely artifacts thereof.

In each case I tried to conduct my due diligence prior to purchase, including executed, sworn affidavits. One was purchased from a retired law enforcement officer who was awarded a bronze star. The other was purchased from a gentleman moving into an assisted living facility, one which did not allow firearms. Both are in their 90's.

Could either rifle be something other than represented. Absolutely. Without actually being present to see that what is being claimed is true, anything is possible.

I would like to think that I have done all I can to minimize the possibility.

This is a great hobby that allows both shooters and collectors many different avenues to pursue their interests.

I think that characterizing one segment of the hobby who may conclude that a "story" adds value to a particular item as a "moron" is both presumptuous and arrogant.
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are the mums intact? if not, you got raked.
 
It seems that everybody's grandpa was a sniper as well. I own a Luger that was "donated" to a Canadian POW. The man was my neighbour when I farmed. He gave it to his brother and the brother used to bring it to the range and let us shoot it. He gave it to his son, and when he lost interest in shooting, I bought it. It came with a belt and holster. The POW spoke German and was one of the liaisons at the camp. When it became obvious that liberation was imminent, the fellow told an officer he wanted his pistol. When the Allied people showed up, the German officer took off the belt and handed it to the POW.

I have no reason to doubt the story, and the experts need not tag me as a moron.
 
A firearm can prove itself a bring back if it shows signs of being sent home. No story to go along but a box cut or duffle cut is seldom disputed as anything but a bringback. Also one I picked up had the bayo lug removed and attached to the front band so that the stock itself would fit in a box.

Things like that.
 
Another point to bring up is just because something is a 'Vet bring back' or 'War bring back' doesn't mean it was actually in combat. Ya it might have been a rifle brought back by a vet but by the same regard he could have just as easily gotten it from a pile of rifles (they used to stack them wide and tall) as he could have gotten it in combat.

One point in particular for Canadians is if it is claimed to be a Canadian Vet Bringback then it should be a pistol. As I understand it the Canadians weren't really allowed to bring back firearms so pistols were the priority as it could be hidden easily. This is why most vet bring backs here are P38s and Lugers as opposed to K98ks and Gewehrs.
 
CanadianAR said:
A firearm can prove itself a bring back if it shows signs of being sent home. No story to go along but a box cut or duffle cut is seldom disputed as anything but a bringback. Also one I picked up had the bayo lug removed and attached to the front band so that the stock itself would fit in a box.

Things like that.
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Agreed 100%. Some of them are super rare (non refurbed Carcano my wife has comes to mind) displaying features not found on non bring backs found here etc.
 
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