Wc 852
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A pretty good powder for .303br.
With 180gr CIL KKSP's, in a # 4mk1 18"bbl. carbine, Fed. cases, WLRM primer, seated to 3.025" oal..
Started at 43gr #852 for 2020FPS.
Worked up to 47gr max., for 2200FPS.
Settled on 46gr for a working load.
This one has a short, oversize(.316"), slow barrel .... hence the lethargic velocities.
These loads may be excessive in a tighter bored rifle.
With 180gr CIL KKSP's, in a # 4mk1 18"bbl. carbine, Fed. cases, WLRM primer, seated to 3.025" oal..
Started at 43gr #852 for 2020FPS.
Worked up to 47gr max., for 2200FPS.
Settled on 46gr for a working load.
This one has a short, oversize(.316"), slow barrel .... hence the lethargic velocities.
These loads may be excessive in a tighter bored rifle.
I just guessed 43 grains would be a good starting load, with kksp 180's I got 2080 for a starting load, actually I was fireforming cases for my Epps, and it worked just fine. I am now thinking that I will give lead bullets a try. I have a 200 gr 314 mold. I will load them to 1800 fps and see if they will shoot. I would not be afraid to shoot a moose with that.
Well there you go!.
Interesting that we are only 60 fps apart at our respective, and oh so arbitrary, start loads.
#852 seems quite progressive and easy to get along with in .303, ... unlike 6.5x55, where it quite suddenly hits the wall at 42.5/140.
.375 H&H/270, on the other hand, just gobbles the stuff. 79gr's for 2800fps holds nice and tight to 500yds. Slams them gongs something awfull!.
I've got a couple hundred 1'ce fireformed
Epps WW brass, that hasn't got a chamber nearby to shoot out of. Let me know via pm if you're interested.
As for Mr. Moose?, would Grandad have had any second thoughts of putting 200 grains through the ribs?.
If you are speaking of the slow lot of WC 852 that Higginsons sold about a decade ago, I have found that it seems virtually identical the discontinued H450 (or Win 785). It is the only powder I use in my 7x57, and I load 175-grain bullets.
It is also excellent in the .300 Winchester Magnum, having a burning rate in between IMR 4831 and H4831.
Personally, I'd use a faster powder in the .303, but it's good to see that it has worked in that cartridge for others.
It is also excellent in the .300 Winchester Magnum, having a burning rate in between IMR 4831 and H4831.
Personally, I'd use a faster powder in the .303, but it's good to see that it has worked in that cartridge for others.
Yes, my powder was bought from Higginsons about 12 years back. Lot # ABCK.
The 7lb cartons were labeled "use H414 data". The burning rate of this lot hovers around 4350 speeds for me, ... a bit quicker in the 6.5x55, about the same as 4350 in .303, and .375 H&H. It is too slow for the .308win, but not bad in 30/06 with 150/165's.
I've had good results with both IMR4350 and #852 in the .303br using 180gr bullets. Max loads fill the case, and speeds are the best i've seen from barrels 18"-25" long.
None of my Brit's are scoped, however iron sight accuracy is equal to any other powder yet tryed.
It would not surprise to hear that other lot #'s have signifigantly different characteristics. When dealing with surplus powder, we would be wise to start low and keep an eye on things as the charges increase.
Wish I had bought more of the stuff. That .375 chews through a lot of powder dollars.
I beleive you are mixing WC852 with another one from Higginson labeled "47SL " that one uses h414 data.
My lot of WC852 is alot like H450. nice and slow like the 4831's,
WC852 in a .303 would be awfully slow powder to use in the Brit.
Is your WC852 from lot ABCK ?.
As this is the only powder I've ever purchased from Higginsons, I'm quite certain of its labeling.
I used the H414 data in the early stages of 852 work-up, in 3 different calibers, and paralled some of those loads with genuine H414 for group.
Overall results suggest that my #852 is just slightly faster than canister H414, and also a bit more "sudden" as max is being approached.
In 6.5x55/140, pressure begins to show at 2.5gr less charge weight than with IMR4350.
Quite a difference to your powder. Indeed.
I wish mine was as slow as yours, as the original idea was for heavy load/heavy bullet 6.5x55. Too fast for that.
But good in .303br. & .375H&H.
Just checked my lot number and it is for sure different, My lot number is 10.
Didn't know Higginsons brought in that lot of faster powder, good info for the OP to know.
I have both slow WC852 and the 47SL left from 10 years ago......Damn should have bought more!
Didn't know Higginsons brought in that lot of faster powder, good info for the OP to know.
I have both slow WC852 and the 47SL left from 10 years ago......Damn should have bought more!
From the lips of old Tom H himself, back in the day
"H414=W760=H414SL10"
"WC852=H450"
Tom knew his stuff and wasn't one to mince words. Towards the end, he wasn't feeling well enough as the cancer progressed and just didn't have enough time in the day.
Tom, knew powders inside out. He knew the people that produced them and who they produced them for. I miss him a lot. He was one of those men with an absolutely positive attitude. He was also a great friend of all Canadian reloaders. There are many here that miss him.
Andrew is a good guy but he has taken Higgonson's off on a different tangent. I suspect it was his influence that started the change, even before Tom turned the business over to him.
Don't get me wrong, he's doing a fine job. I just miss the surplus powders.
H414SL10, was one of the predecessors to the light magnum powders in use today. It is still one of the most consistent powders under all conditions I've ever run across, other than H4831. It's main advantage is that its ball powder and feed well through a measure.
It's my go to powder for 6.5x55, 7x57 and 8x57, with heavy bullets. I've tried several of the new powders and still can't find anything that will beat it. Amazingly, I ran into an unopened 7 pound box of it at the Kamloops gun show last Saturday. The fellow wanted $40 for it and we were both happy with the transaction. That was certainly a good show. I couldn't believe it was still there. I didn't get to the show until after 11am.
WC852, works very well that any hand load for H450 works in.
I especially like it in the 223Rem with 55 grain bullets. That's what it was designed for and was used in military contracts for the 5.56 Nato. I think the 22-250, loves it even more than the 223. I just looked at an old load I had for one and only 22-250 I ever owned and it was noted there that WC852 was the best all around powder for it with anything from 45 -62 grains.
There was a load for the 55 grain bullet that was 40.2 grains of WC852 and a notation the the average group size of 10 targets with 5 bullets in each of them, was 5/8 inch at 100 yards. I know, that's no screaming hell but we're talking about a sporter weight rifle/barrel combo.
Yup, I sure do miss those surplus powders.
There was one caveat that Tom would be sure to include in his conversations with newbies.
Every rifle is different, every powder is different from lot to lot, sometimes different from the beginning of the lot to the end of the lot.
He often told people to take all of the cans of the same powder they had on hand, with the same designation on them to dump all of them together in one big container, stir them well and put the blended powder back into the properly marked containers.
That had to be one of the best pieces of advice I've ever been given.
I really have an aversion to buying partially filled containers of powder at gun shows. Not that I don't trust them to have the proper label but just don't trust the burn rates anymore to be consistent. Often as not, those cans have been shaken and rattled around by every Tom, #### and Harry at the show. This rubs the graphite coatings off the outside, that controls the burn rates. I've yet to see a consistent partial can of powder yet.
The point of all of this is, use discretion, with any powder. All powders have a range they are the most efficient in. They can be dangerous at both ends of that range in different cases.
"H414=W760=H414SL10"
"WC852=H450"
Tom knew his stuff and wasn't one to mince words. Towards the end, he wasn't feeling well enough as the cancer progressed and just didn't have enough time in the day.
Tom, knew powders inside out. He knew the people that produced them and who they produced them for. I miss him a lot. He was one of those men with an absolutely positive attitude. He was also a great friend of all Canadian reloaders. There are many here that miss him.
Andrew is a good guy but he has taken Higgonson's off on a different tangent. I suspect it was his influence that started the change, even before Tom turned the business over to him.
Don't get me wrong, he's doing a fine job. I just miss the surplus powders.
H414SL10, was one of the predecessors to the light magnum powders in use today. It is still one of the most consistent powders under all conditions I've ever run across, other than H4831. It's main advantage is that its ball powder and feed well through a measure.
It's my go to powder for 6.5x55, 7x57 and 8x57, with heavy bullets. I've tried several of the new powders and still can't find anything that will beat it. Amazingly, I ran into an unopened 7 pound box of it at the Kamloops gun show last Saturday. The fellow wanted $40 for it and we were both happy with the transaction. That was certainly a good show. I couldn't believe it was still there. I didn't get to the show until after 11am.
WC852, works very well that any hand load for H450 works in.
I especially like it in the 223Rem with 55 grain bullets. That's what it was designed for and was used in military contracts for the 5.56 Nato. I think the 22-250, loves it even more than the 223. I just looked at an old load I had for one and only 22-250 I ever owned and it was noted there that WC852 was the best all around powder for it with anything from 45 -62 grains.
There was a load for the 55 grain bullet that was 40.2 grains of WC852 and a notation the the average group size of 10 targets with 5 bullets in each of them, was 5/8 inch at 100 yards. I know, that's no screaming hell but we're talking about a sporter weight rifle/barrel combo.
Yup, I sure do miss those surplus powders.
There was one caveat that Tom would be sure to include in his conversations with newbies.
Every rifle is different, every powder is different from lot to lot, sometimes different from the beginning of the lot to the end of the lot.
He often told people to take all of the cans of the same powder they had on hand, with the same designation on them to dump all of them together in one big container, stir them well and put the blended powder back into the properly marked containers.
That had to be one of the best pieces of advice I've ever been given.
I really have an aversion to buying partially filled containers of powder at gun shows. Not that I don't trust them to have the proper label but just don't trust the burn rates anymore to be consistent. Often as not, those cans have been shaken and rattled around by every Tom, #### and Harry at the show. This rubs the graphite coatings off the outside, that controls the burn rates. I've yet to see a consistent partial can of powder yet.
The point of all of this is, use discretion, with any powder. All powders have a range they are the most efficient in. They can be dangerous at both ends of that range in different cases.
