Webley Mark VI - how to tell if it is converted?

UncleWalther

UncleWalther

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I've been buying a few WWI-era Webley revolvers lately, and I was hoping one of you milsurp experts could help with a question...

How can you tell if a Webley Mark VI has been converted to shoot .45ACP? I had read something about the back of the cylinder being shaved, as a tell-tale sign. If my revolvers have military proof marks (which obviously were not shaved off) on the back of the cylinder, is it safe to assume they were not converted?

Anyway, how do you tell?

Thanks!
 
UncleWalther said:
How can you tell if a Webley Mark VI has been converted to shoot .45ACP? I had read something about the back of the cylinder being shaved, as a tell-tale sign. If my revolvers have military proof marks (which obviously were not shaved off) on the back of the cylinder, is it safe to assume they were not converted?
Click to expand...

Correct

If there is a big gap between the cylinder and the back of the revolver then it has been converted.
 
n the pistols and revolvers forum above an uncut .455 Webley cylinder is shown in a thread "Can you ID these revolver cylinders?" If a cylinder is cut for 45 the marks at the rear will have been ground off.
 
If the revolver has been converted for .45 ACP, the back side of the cylinder will have been ground down enough that the serial number on the side of the cylinder will be missing the bottoms of the numbers.
 
Also there will be NO marks on the rear of the cylinder. ie: a broad arrow and an inspectors mark (crown over a number)
The arse end of the cylinder will not be blued because that was removed when it was shaved. Once you have seen a shaved cylinder, they are easy to spot. But if you happen to have a feeler gage handy, the distance between the cylinder and the recoil shield on an uncut one will be .044 accept and .049 reject.
However, all is not lost even if it is shaved. .45 Auto Rim unprimed brass is available from Midway. It is a couple of thou smaller in diameter than .455, but that's not noticeable, and you can use a set of inexpensive Lee .455 dies to load the rounds. 5.0 gr of Unique will approximate the original load.(from an old lyman reloading handbook)
DO NOT fire .45ACP or .45 AR factory loads in the Webley That is the equivalent of a proof load and unpleasent to shoot as well. The conversions were done at the time .455 ammo was damm near impossible to find. At least south of the border! LOL
I really doubt that these conversions were intended as anything more than "night table guns" quick and dirty. The BRITISH NEVER did these as an issue weapon, regardless of what some snake oil salesman would have you believe.:rolleyes:
 
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John is right, 100 percent.

But these can be fun to shoot, so be sure you shoot it if you get it. There is still some .45 Auto Rim brass floating around in Canada and, if the gun has been altered, this will work well. If the gun has NOT been altered..... and you have already spent all your money on .45 Auto Rim brass...... you can convert the Auto Rim brass to a pretty decent fake of the .455 Mark II cartridge by thinning the rim on a lathe.
 
measure the space between the cylinder and the recoil plate is the correct answer.

.45 acp on clips makes the old war horse the tactical equivalant of a 1911 and the chance of a FTF or jam are slim to nil.


Something I have noticed on the webley conversions is that often the extractor is altered to raise the extraction star but not have it snap back down. At first you think it is broke but I am now of the humble opinion that this is an improvement because the full moon clips usually follow an un altered extractor back down and fail to eject. This alteration also allows you to do a tactical reload on 3 cartridges using half clips while retaining 3 unfired rounds.

Obviously you need to match the bullet loaded to the bore/throat of your particular revolver.
 
Nah, its simply wear on the frame preventing it from compressing the spring loaded auxilery lever in the extractor lever so it won't slide into the frame and allow the extractor spring to snap the extractor back into the cylinder. Keep in mind it's quite likely that a Mk6 has gone through TWO wars!
 
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blown MKVI webley

Here is a picture from Grant R of a webley converted to 45acp.

They seem to think that this blew after shooting handloads?
http://p223.ezboard.com/webley-mark-V/fbritishmilitariaforumsfrm8.showMessage?topicID=284.topic
Regards
Terry
Blown03a.jpg
 
To put in perspective though lots of pics of modern guns out there in the same shape. Feed a gun the wrong pill and it will hurt you.
 
Actually, the round which blew up this cylinder wasn't a "hot handload" - it was a factory load, headstamped "WCC 85 Match".

As a "Match" load, it would have been very precisely loaded to standard specs (or might even be a lighter load ... in any event, it definitley wouldn't be "hot" ....)
 
I find it impossible to believe that 1 match .45acp round would destroy a mkVI. There are thousands of these out there that regularily fire 45 colt, 45 acp and ridiculous handloads. I am sure that a few of em fired military issue
.455 with flanders clay packed in the barrel as well.

This one might have done all of the above many many times before the failure. failure can be a cumulative event as easily as it can be a single occurance event.

Fire to many hot handloads in a modern revolver and some day a light factory load will blow it up.

I also fail to see how the fact that the round was factory loaded preempts suspicion of the round being loaded to higher then normal pressures.
This one gun tells us nothing other then a 45 cal wheel gun by it's very nature has a thin cylinder wall.

This type of event immediatley begins a process of "ass covering" and little is to be learned about it's cause from the evidence "published" by those potentially liable.

The british Navy also issued many .455 revovlers cut to 45 acp and there is no tradition of fearing them. (use the ross as a benchmark)

I say keep pressures low and if you are suspicous of a gun look in the chambers and see if you can notice depressions that line up with the bolt stops. Also remove the latch screw and look for deformation. These two indicators will give you inforamtion about previously fired "hot" loads.

Holding 10 thousand PSI explosions in your hand aint ever going to be inheriently safe and anytime you pull a trigger there is risk.

wear CSA approved glasses, don't let your mates stand in harms way and inspect your arms regularily.
 
You got a reference for the Royal Navy issuing .455 revolvers cut for the .45ACP? I find that EXTREMELY HARD to believe.
Why would they? The .455 was the standard service round and there would certainly be NO reason to use a cartridge made in another country when you had plenty of ammunition in your own supply system.
It would be the equivalent to our military converting M1911's to .455.
Carrying it a bit further, WHAT would be the reason for worrying about supplying the proper ammunition when your main armament is anything from three inch to 15 inch guns.:confused:
 
I would also like to see documentation for the claim that the Royal Navy issued "many" such revolvers converted to fire .45ACP (let alone "any" ... ;) )

I believe that the RN did have some revolvers adapted to accept .455 Webley Auto cartridges ... which was standard ammunition in the British supply system, and thus makes some sense. However, the pressures developed by that cartridge are only marginally higher than the .455 MkII revolver round ... and most definitely well below the pressures developed by the .45ACP.

That said, I do acknowledge that anyone is free to do as they wish with their own firearms and personal safety. As for myself, I will not risk shooting standard .45ACP ammunition (or anything else loaded to similar specs) in any revolver proofed only for .455 loads, and will continue to caution against the practice .... just as I would recommend against feeding any firearm a steady diet of "overly hot" ammunition for the very reason you have stated - doing so will sooner or later result in damage to the firearm ... and quite possibly its destruction. Clearly, destruction of a "shaved" Webley is not likely to happen as a result of a single round of .45ACP ammunition being fired in it (.... too many rounds have been fired in such revolvers for anyone to be able to say that ....) but the fact remains that shooting standard .45ACP in an altered .455 Webley definitely constitutes feeding it "overly hot" ammunition .... I trust you are not disputing that?
 
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