weirdest thing

p14shooter

p14shooter

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The weirdest thing in a long time happened to me today. Shooting a batch, and I had one misfire. thought it must have been a squib, but nothing happened. Shook the case and concluded that there was no powder. So the weird thing to me is why the bullet did not get pushed into the barrel when the primer ignited. Yes the primer did go off as the bottom of the bullet was black. I did not even hear a pop when the primer ignited. No bulge in the case, no primer back out that would explain where the pressure would go, nothing. Weirdest thing to me anyway.
 
I had the same thing happen to me, despite how careful I am, out of the 800 rounds I loaded for gophers this spring I missed getting powder in one. The bullet did not move at all and it sounded just like a dry fire, not even a snap from the primer.

Just glad I did not get a squib in my barrel.

Mine was in a .204 Ruger so I guess there is enough case volume that it absorbed the effect of the primer.

What was the cartridge you were using??
 
p14shooter said:
The weirdest thing in a long time happened to me today. Shooting a batch, and I had one misfire. thought it must have been a squib, but nothing happened. Shook the case and concluded that there was no powder. So the weird thing to me is why the bullet did not get pushed into the barrel when the primer ignited. Yes the primer did go off as the bottom of the bullet was black. I did not even hear a pop when the primer ignited. No bulge in the case, no primer back out that would explain where the pressure would go, nothing. Weirdest thing to me anyway.
Click to expand...

You didn't state what calibre of rifle, maybe your namesake, a 303?
I recently tried that on purpose, no powder. I wanted to see if different primers moved the bullet further.
Actually, Bearhunter, on here, and I talked about this at the Vernon gun show.
The 45-70 dies were set up, so seated a standard rifle primer with the 420 grain cast bullet and no crimp.
As you say, it is weird, that there is absolutely no sound as it goes off. And this is in my basement, with, of course, no ear muffs on. So, not a sound, except for the firing pin hitting the primer, opened the action and out came the cartridge, just as it went in.
OK, now I will blow it out! Seated a magnum primer. No noise. No bullet movement.
Next I went to the 30-06. 165 grain bullet no crimp. Standard primer, no noise, cartridge came out just as it went in!
Magnum primer. No noise, bullet never moved.
Next I went to the Marlin, 44 mag. 240 grain cast bullet, no crimp. Standard primer didn't move it, magnum primer just barely moved the bullet, a bit. This one bullet test was really no test of the different primer power, as it relates to the 44 mag. I just took a couple of used empties, without knowing if one had a tighter neck, or not. More testing would be required before it could be stated whether, or not, a magnum primer had more power.
Like you, I too, was taken by the sooty, black residue on the bullet bases when I pulled them. All primers, I even used some large pistol ones, also, made the considerable amount of black residue.
My thought on this was, is the primer responsible for "dirty powder," often complained of, in pistol shooting? The whole inside of the cases were blackened up with this sooty material.
 
I've had primers push the bullet into the rifleing and stick there on an old .270 Parker Hale, but usually nothing happens at all.
If you really want to see something weird, I've had the primer fire and not start the powder burning last winter. It was 30-40 below, useing CCI Magnum primers in my .338 Edge with 92 grains of H1000. The primer was burnt on one side only and the powder was welded into a blob that I had to scrape out with a big nail to salvage the case. The bottom part of the powder column was yellow, and the top was black. Happened more than once too.
 
Dogleg, that's why we put a little 700x on top of the primer before adding powder in the bigger cases. 416 Rigby and 505. About 5 gr. does the trick. Mark
 
358 said:
Dogleg, that's why we put a little 700x on top of the primer before adding powder in the bigger cases. 416 Rigby and 505. About 5 gr. does the trick. Mark
Click to expand...

Guys have been duplexing black powder loads for years too. I've had no problem with the Federal 215, which was developed after Weatherby was having trouble getting the .378 to light up. They work well in my Rigby too.
I don't use CCI primers that much, but Carlock seemed to be so convinced that they were the hot ticket for the Edge that I thought I'd give them a whirl. Didn't work out so great for me, I never had so many misfires in my life.
 
useing one of the lee kits, ive struck the sizing rod hard enough to ignite the primer (forgot to size some before priming). I was on my couch in the living room. not a sound. just a smell and a puff of smoke when i removed the rod.
 
Dogleg said:
I've had primers push the bullet into the rifleing and stick there on an old .270 Parker Hale, but usually nothing happens at all.
If you really want to see something weird, I've had the primer fire and not start the powder burning last winter. It was 30-40 below, useing CCI Magnum primers in my .338 Edge with 92 grains of H1000. The primer was burnt on one side only and the powder was welded into a blob that I had to scrape out with a big nail to salvage the case. The bottom part of the powder column was yellow, and the top was black. Happened more than once too.
Click to expand...

I have sated on some of these threads before. In a reloading digest I have the results of a very thorough lab test of all different types of primers. They tested different strengths of the firing pin hitting the primer, also.
The bottom line of the test was that the strength of the hit on the primer, had more to do with the power of the primer, than did the type of primer. In other words, a weak firing pin with a magnum primer, did not give as much power as did a standard primer with a strong hit from the firing pin.
When people talk of needing a magnum primer in cold weather, I think it has more to do with the cold stiffening the action, giving a weak firing pin hit. I grew up about 150 miles N/E of yur location in an age when every homesteader lived on wild meat, elk and moose, mainly, and hunted year around. Also, that was a period of very cold winters.
Every homesteader and trapper knew they had to take apart their rifle in the fall and with kerosene, carefully clean every vistage of oil from the firing pin and related material. Otherwise, the rifle wouldn't fire. But, with it thoroughly cleaned, the elk and moose were killed just as dead by the 30-30s, the 250 and 300 Savages, the 32-40s the 6.5s, etc, etc, in the midst of very cold winters, as they were in the summer or fall. Every type of action required the same treatment.
By the way, the ammunition used was all one brand, CIL Dominion. And guess what, this was many years before anyone thought of a magnum primer!
 
H4831 said:
I have sated on some of these threads before. In a reloading digest I have the results of a very thorough lab test of all different types of primers. They tested different strengths of the firing pin hitting the primer, also.
The bottom line of the test was that the strength of the hit on the primer, had more to do with the power of the primer, than did the type of primer. In other words, a weak firing pin with a magnum primer, did not give as much power as did a standard primer with a strong hit from the firing pin.
When people talk of needing a magnum primer in cold weather, I think it has more to do with the cold stiffening the action, giving a weak firing pin hit. I grew up about 150 miles N/E of yur location in an age when every homesteader lived on wild meat, elk and moose, mainly, and hunted year around. Also, that was a period of very cold winters.
Every homesteader and trapper knew they had to take apart their rifle in the fall and with kerosene, carefully clean every vistage of oil from the firing pin and related material. Otherwise, the rifle wouldn't fire. But, with it thoroughly cleaned, the elk and moose were killed just as dead by the 30-30s, the 250 and 300 Savages, the 32-40s the 6.5s, etc, etc, in the midst of very cold winters, as they were in the summer or fall. Every type of action required the same treatment.
By the way, the ammunition used was all one brand, CIL Dominion. And guess what, this was many years before anyone thought of a magnum primer!
Click to expand...


We did the takedown of the bolt and boiled it sometimes to be sure, we would then leave the bolt on the metal shelf just above the woodstove to dry completely overnight. I never remembered a misfire and we had all kinds of firearms. So, I think you have a point about the primer being harder to light because of the cold rather than a light firing pin strike.
 
H4831,
I can strip and clean a bolt about as good as anyone can. Contrary to what you may think, the whole world isn't stupid and cleaning the bolt was the first thing I tried. The second was to confirm firing pin protrusion and free-play which is adjustable on a Savage. The third was to put in a 32 pound Wolf striker spring, which helped some but didn't solve it. The easiest course of action would have been to abandon the CCI primers, but Savages are rather famous for cratering primers and the heavier CCI cups seem to stand up better than most. Finally I switched to 215Ms which solved it rather nicely. Those hundred yearold homesteaders would have been proud.:rolleyes:
 
H4831 said:
You didn't state what calibre of rifle, maybe your namesake, a 303?
I recently tried that on purpose, no powder. I wanted to see if different primers moved the bullet further.
Actually, Bearhunter, on here, and I talked about this at the Vernon gun show.
The 45-70 dies were set up, so seated a standard rifle primer with the 420 grain cast bullet and no crimp.
As you say, it is weird, that there is absolutely no sound as it goes off. And this is in my basement, with, of course, no ear muffs on. So, not a sound, except for the firing pin hitting the primer, opened the action and out came the cartridge, just as it went in.
OK, now I will blow it out! Seated a magnum primer. No noise. No bullet movement.
Next I went to the 30-06. 165 grain bullet no crimp. Standard primer, no noise, cartridge came out just as it went in!
Magnum primer. No noise, bullet never moved.
Next I went to the Marlin, 44 mag. 240 grain cast bullet, no crimp. Standard primer didn't move it, magnum primer just barely moved the bullet, a bit. This one bullet test was really no test of the different primer power, as it relates to the 44 mag. I just took a couple of used empties, without knowing if one had a tighter neck, or not. More testing would be required before it could be stated whether, or not, a magnum primer had more power.
Like you, I too, was taken by the sooty, black residue on the bullet bases when I pulled them. All primers, I even used some large pistol ones, also, made the considerable amount of black residue.
My thought on this was, is the primer responsible for "dirty powder," often complained of, in pistol shooting? The whole inside of the cases were blackened up with this sooty material.
Click to expand...

it was actually a .308 on a p14 action. I was about to wonder out loud about what would happen if you made the primer ignite while resizing (yes I have had to do that out of my own error), or while seating the primer but gallan270 answered that. I think I will still wear safety glasses and not look into the case while doing it though. As the old saying goes, if you don't wear your safety glasses, one day you wont have to worry about it anymore.
 
On the pistol side of things, a large pistol primer will move a 10mm bullet out far enough to have to pound it out with a piece of dowel. f**king Winchester garbage. I too was surprised at the "soot" left behind.
 
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