Wet Tumbling Media & Sources and effectiveness - Stainless Pins, crushed glass/bead

Flying Beaver

Flying Beaver

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Wet Tumbling Media & Sources and effectiveness - Stainless Pins, crushed glass/bead

Greetings to all,

After being distracted from doing any reloading for some time by silly things like moving, breaking my arm, cataract surgery, etc., I'm finally setting up my reloading bench in a new house. Prior to now, I've used both base model Frankford Arsenal and a larger Lyman Turbo Pro vibratory cleaners. I've had no particular problems with getting my brass clean enough to reload, but I've been hearing a lot about the advantages of wet tumbling.

One disadvantage is that I'm now retired and on a fixed & limited budget, so I'm trying to think of more economical ways of doing things.

Many people seem to favour the Frankford Arsenal Platinum wet tumbler kit, which includes 5 pounds of stainless steel pin media. However, the lowest price I've found on these lately have been $300 - $320, and that does not include a magnet or media separator. I've seen posts in this forum about people finding this kit at Cabelas for around $160, but I haven't come across any deals lately. (If anyone can point me to a more affordable price for this package, that would be appreciated).

I can probably fabri-cobble up a rotary wet tumbler, along the line of several "home brew" machines I've seen on YouTube. i probably have many of the necessary parts on hand. However, that still leaves the question of media.

I have been looking on Amazon and a few other sites, and stainless steel pins are fairly costly. Granted, they last practically forever, but it's still a large chunk of cash to buy 5 lbs or thereabouts. I admiit I have not checked with every single CGN sponsoring vendor as yet, but the ones I have checked still charge quite a bit for stainless media.

So, questions #1 and #2: Can anyone recommend a more reasonably priced source for stainless steel pin media, and or a complete wet tumbling package, such as the FA one?

My other question comes about from something I saw recently. A very old log house, built from some very soft cedar, was having several coats of fugly paint removed from the wood by a guy using crushed glass blasting. Amazingly to me, the crushed glass did not mark the very soft cedar wood at all, even under high pressure blasting.

The crushed glass media is very cheap at places like Princess Auto - around $12 for a 50 pound bag. Glass bead is more expensive at $39/50 lbs. I have done a good deal of searching on YouTube and on the 'net, but I have not found any reference to anyone using crushed glass as a tumbling media, either in a dry vibratory tumbler, or as media in a wet rotary tumbler. This material seems to be quite gentle as far as abrading the material being cleaned - it didn't mark the soft cedar wood in any way, but removed every bit of dirt, paint, etc. I've seen reference to ceramic pellet media being used in both wet and dry case tumbling, so I'm wondering if anyone on the CGN forum has tried the crushed glass or glass bead media used in various wet and dry "blasting" applicatoins?

I can see where crushed glass could not be picked up using a magnet; against that, it is probably no harder to rinse out of cases than is ceramic media. But, that's speculation on my part.

I realize I'm asking several different questions here, and I'm sorry if it seems a bit convoluted.

I really do not want to drop the thick end of $400 on a new wet tumbler with all the accessories and media if I don't have to. Even the wet tumblers for sale in the EE are fetching a pretty high price. My budget is such that I'd rather find a way to do wet tumbling economically, thus leaving me more cash for primers, powder, new brass, etc.

My main reloading at the moment is 9mm pistol (reloading with cast bullets), .223 rifle, 7.62x39R brass, and (new to me) 7.62x51 NATO/.308 rifle. I''ve got some boxer-primed Hirtzenberger cases, 7.62 x 51, that look like they'll be very good in terms of reloading. I have ample brass for 9mm and .223, and 100-150 of the 7.62x39 brass cases (sure wish there was an easy way to re-use the steel cases from milsurp in that calibre).

Thanks for any thoughts, advice, or suggestions that anyone might have. I guess ideally, a "turnkey" package such as the FA Platinum wet tumbling system would save a lot of fiddling, and heaven knows after breaking my arm in 9 places building stuff in the workshop is more of a problem that it used to be. Having said that, the cost of it would put a big dent in my monthly pension allowance - unfortunately not that generous.

Thanks, and Best to all,
Flying Beaver
 
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A free source of stainless steel are the strips in discarded wiper blades. They are about 1/8 inch wide. With a good bolt cutter you can create all the media needs. This has worked for me. As you are retired the several hours to source and slice the steel should be doable!
 
5lb bag of STM stainless media is $39.95 US and free shipping if you know someone with a US mailing address and US Amazon Prime account...the stuff is amazing and lasts forever. Then build your own tumbler and you’re good to go.
 
FirearmsEnthusiast said:
5lb bag of STM stainless media is $39.95 US and free shipping if you know someone with a US mailing address and US Amazon Prime account...the stuff is amazing and lasts forever. Then build your own tumbler and you’re good to go.
Click to expand...

This!

I'm all for cheap solutions and saving money but it's better to save money another way i think.

The stainless pins are great because they are magnetic, so easy to pick up with a magnet.
They are in the end pretty cheap since they will last almost forever and when you are done with them you can sell them again.

My tumbler is home made and did not cost much at all.

Cutting up some sort of wire sounds like an awful lot of work.
 
I got a tumbler off of Ebay. $150 and it looks great. Smaller than the FA but cheaper too.

Edit it's a thumler
 
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If you have the means and the parts to build your own then it can be built for few little dollars and work very well. However spend the money on stainless pins and don’t try to use anything other than them. My son made ours out of abs pipe for well under a $100.00 and it works very well.
 
I have 2 tumbler. A FA which I bought for 200$, but that was a wrong price from an amazon reseller, that price isn't coming back anytime soon. Even used they cost more then that. I should have bought 10 of those and sold them for 250$ on the EE, make a quick 500$ and 10 happy people in the process.

The second one is a Model A R12 Thumler tumbler. Bought it used for a pittance, and had to buy a new belt and the pins from a different source. I bought these pins from a e-bay seller:
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/5-Pounds-St...-Pins-5lb-047-x-255-Made-in-USA/181754776749?
The price after shipping and duties isn't much cheaper than FA pins on amazon though. Back then however it was.

I actually prefer the ebay pins to the FA ones. The diameter is larger so they're easier to pick up. The FA clean primer pocket better though, but for handgun reloads it doesn't matter, not even a tiny tiny bit. If I had to make a tumbler to save money, I'd put my effort on the tumbler, there's a lot more saving to be made there then on medias.

Glass and ceramic won't really work very well. And they're gonna be a ##### to separate from the brass since they're not magnetic.

It is frustrating how expensive wet tumblers are for the simple machines that they are. They are pretty much just a tiny, less complicated version of a washing machine, yet they cost almost as much.
 
The length and diameter of the pins also makes a big difference - the STM pins do a great job cleaning even the primer pockets, yet never seem to get stuck in the flash hole or the case mouth so long as I do 20-30 turns in the media separator.
 
For the economy, My cent is that the wet tumbling is better in many ways.
I bought my bag of 5lb SS media at local gun store in Inglewood.
IT WAs cheaper that Cabelas’ FKA.
If you are retained and time is plenty, then either you could DIY the wet tumbler at size of your desire or go small batch using RICK tumbler that you might pick them up at local thrift store for cheap.

I’ve never used the dry tumbler, but did not like the fact it will create dust cloud....even tinny bit.... mmm I’m not fun of that.
Hope my sharing helps a bit.
 
palwait said:
A free source of stainless steel are the strips in discarded wiper blades. They are about 1/8 inch wide. With a good bolt cutter you can create all the media needs. This has worked for me. As you are retired the several hours to source and slice the steel should be doable!
Click to expand...

Now, that's what I call ingenious! It never occurred to me that those were Stainless, even as many times as I've had my hands on them. I might even be able to lay hands on some discarded wiper blades nearby.

Sorry for the delay in replying - I fell and broke my arm on the weekend, which kind of messed up regular activities! Thanks for the nifty idea!
 
FirearmsEnthusiast said:
5lb bag of STM stainless media is $39.95 US and free shipping if you know someone with a US mailing address and US Amazon Prime account...the stuff is amazing and lasts forever. Then build your own tumbler and you’re good to go.
Click to expand...

That's good information. I guy I went through engineering with is living near Seattle, and I think he's planning a trip here this fall. I know he's got an Amazon Prime account, too. I will email him and ask him to do a look-see. $39.95 US I can afford, and I have pretty much everything else I'd need to build a decent tumbler - motor, bearings, caster wheels, and a selection of things that would make good tumbling vessels.

Thanks for the info! Sorry for the slow reply - I fell & broke my arm on the weekend, which has kind of put my plans out of kilter. No 3-gun for a while!
Thanks,
Jim
 
bertn said:
This!

I'm all for cheap solutions and saving money but it's better to save money another way i think.

The stainless pins are great because they are magnetic, so easy to pick up with a magnet.
They are in the end pretty cheap since they will last almost forever and when you are done with them you can sell them again.

My tumbler is home made and did not cost much at all.

Cutting up some sort of wire sounds like an awful lot of work.
Click to expand...

From everyone's very helpful comments, it sure sounds like using Stainless is the way to go. I have pretty well everything necessary to build a tumbler, anything from a large Folger's container size up to a 20 litre plastic pail size. Somewhere in between would probably be ample capacity for my needs.

I was somewhat curious about alternate media for wet tumbling because there are a few videos on Youtube showing commercial brass reprocessors using wet tumblers with various ceramic media. Not a lot of detail, but I wondered if it was a common thing I just hadn't heard about. (There's also a UK company that sells mm Pyrex beads that are, they say, specifically for wet tumbling, although they don't specify what's to be tumbled).

In any event, Stainless media sounds like the way to go. A buddy who has some knowledge of ultrasonic cleaners used in industry did mention that I might find a 3-5 litre capacity unit for under $200, but I haven't had any opportunity to make further inquiries, thanks to my being a klutz & taking a fall.

Thank you for the info. I'm glad to know that a homebuilt setup has worked well.

Cheers,
Jim
 
Flying Beaver said:
That's good information. I guy I went through engineering with is living near Seattle, and I think he's planning a trip here this fall. I know he's got an Amazon Prime account, too. I will email him and ask him to do a look-see. $39.95 US I can afford, and I have pretty much everything else I'd need to build a decent tumbler - motor, bearings, caster wheels, and a selection of things that would make good tumbling vessels.

Thanks for the info! Sorry for the slow reply - I fell & broke my arm on the weekend, which has kind of put my plans out of kilter. No 3-gun for a while!
Thanks,
Jim
Click to expand...

Good luck with your arm recovery Jim.
You might find some inspiration in this thread
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1487550-Homemade-tumbler-Who-s-made-one

pics of my diy tumbler with "breadmaker drivetrain" in post 35 :)
 
You can use a plastic weed sprayer tank for the drum on your tumbler, they work excellent. Most have a large screw on lid which is good for filling and emptying your brass. I used our treadmill to tumble the brass, it has a speed control and timer already built in.
 
Reeferman said:
If you have the means and the parts to build your own then it can be built for few little dollars and work very well. However spend the money on stainless pins and don’t try to use anything other than them. My son made ours out of abs pipe for well under a $100.00 and it works very well.
Click to expand...

Reeferman,
The majority opinion seems to be 100% in favour of stainless steel media for wet tumbling, so that's the route to go. Certainly the quality of the cleaning that wet tumbling and stainless media can do is very high, expecially if the cases are de-capped before tumbling.

I'll get my hand on some stainless pins one way or another - I've already got a couple fo good leads from all the helpful folks here.
Many thanks,
Jim
 
in my case the wet tumbling pins are scratching the brass to a dull finish
this makes sizing without enough lube a daring endeavour
ymmv
 
VinnyQC said:
I have 2 tumbler. A FA which I bought for 200$, but that was a wrong price from an amazon reseller, that price isn't coming back anytime soon. Even used they cost more then that. I should have bought 10 of those and sold them for 250$ on the EE, make a quick 500$ and 10 happy people in the process.

The second one is a Model A R12 Thumler tumbler. Bought it used for a pittance, and had to buy a new belt and the pins from a different source. I bought these pins from a e-bay seller:
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/5-Pounds-St...-Pins-5lb-047-x-255-Made-in-USA/181754776749?
The price after shipping and duties isn't much cheaper than FA pins on amazon though. Back then however it was.

I actually prefer the ebay pins to the FA ones. The diameter is larger so they're easier to pick up. The FA clean primer pocket better though, but for handgun reloads it doesn't matter, not even a tiny tiny bit. If I had to make a tumbler to save money, I'd put my effort on the tumbler, there's a lot more saving to be made there then on medias.

Glass and ceramic won't really work very well. And they're gonna be a ##### to separate from the brass since they're not magnetic.

It is frustrating how expensive wet tumblers are for the simple machines that they are. They are pretty much just a tiny, less complicated version of a washing machine, yet they cost almost as much.
Click to expand...

Yes, there really is not a whole lot to a tumbler. Back in 2012 I made a large one (dry media but rotary) using the guts from a 1950 Maytag gas dryer. The drivelines on those things just never wears out, and all the weight is taken on an axle at the rear. Just remove the clothes drum and substitute a mount for a 20 litre plastic bucket from Home Depot. Unfortunately, I gave it away, mainly because I was putting stuff into storage while going between one house and another. It's still running very well, I'm told - so well the recipient isn't keen on giving it up, LOL. (Maybe I can find another '50 Maytag!).

Seriously, there are several design variations that can be constructed for very little money, compared to commercial units. If I get some stainless media, that sounds like the way to go. My main case sizes will be 9mm, .223, 7.62x39 (eventually), and .308. From what I've seen, all of those clean up very well with wet tumbling. You're right about separating the media - ferritic stainless steel makes the job very simple. I don't know what system the commercial brass processing companies use to separate their ceramic media - I'd be interested to find out, just for the sake of curiousity. But in the meantime, I'll gather up the pieces and start putting a tumbler together. I might have to buy one Lovejoy coupling, but that's about it.

Thanks very much for your reply and the good info.
Cheers,
Jim
 
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WWW226 said:
For the economy, My cent is that the wet tumbling is better in many ways.
I bought my bag of 5lb SS media at local gun store in Inglewood.
IT WAs cheaper that Cabelas’ FKA.
If you are retained and time is plenty, then either you could DIY the wet tumbler at size of your desire or go small batch using RICK tumbler that you might pick them up at local thrift store for cheap.

I’ve never used the dry tumbler, but did not like the fact it will create dust cloud....even tinny bit.... mmm I’m not fun of that.
Hope my sharing helps a bit.
Click to expand...

I'm going to keep my eye out for a 2nd hand tumbler, but I think I have enough odds and ends to make one that will do the job. I'm pretty sure I know the gun shop you mean - haven't been in there for a while, so perhaps I'll pop in the next time I go down to visit my nieces.

I have never had problems with huge amounts of dust when using a vibratory brass cleaner, perhaps because I always put in a bit of Nu Shine or something similar, and used a closed lid. Also, because of the machine noise I usually ran it out in the garage. If I build a wet tumbler using stainless steel media, I think I can still find a use for the vibratory machine - powder-coating cast bullets. FortuneCookie45LC has done a series of YouTube videos about that technique for cast bullets - sounds interesting.

Many thanks for your reply and the information. The people on CGN are just great with any kind of questions. I'm going to be reloading .308 for a Savage 10TR for the first time, and I've no doubt that in spite of having done other rounds in the past, I'll be back to the group here with some questions about that. As always, should be great fun.

cheers,
Jim
 
You can wet tumble without the media and get results that are probably 90% as good as with it, but without having to buy media or deal with separating it from the cases.
 
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