What caliber

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ORANGEMAN

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I would like to build two kit guns.
One Cap/Ball and a Flintlock.
I already have a .45 caliber Patriot with double set triggers.
I like the pistol and it it quite accurate. Because I have the moulds and so on for .45 cal I would like to keep the kit rifles to that caliber.
I have been told that .54 is the most accurate ball to use.
These B/P rifles will only be used for Target Shooting so the .45 should work.
Can any of you/all comment on which caliber is more accurate.
Also is one caliber more accurate in a C/P than a Flintlock.
Thanks:)
 
ORANGEMAN said:
I have been told that .54 is the most accurate ball to use.
These B/P rifles will only be used for Target Shooting so the .45 should work.
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I don't think there is any appreciable difference in accuracy between calibers. The smaller calibers below .40 are a nuisance to clean because they require small (thin) ramrods. Above .54 you tend to go through a lot of powder and lead. The only appreciable difference is if you are shooting gongs on a trail walk, calibers below .45 have a harder time moving the gongs. The longer the range and the heavier the gongs, the larger the caliber you require to move the target.
At most shoots in this area, there is nothing wrong with a .45 for target shooting. There may actually be an advantage because if you are using a barrel with a compromise twist rate (1:48), the smaller calibers may be less fussy about optimum powder charge.

cheers mooncoon
 
Thanks mooncoon

mooncoon said:
I don't think there is any appreciable difference in accuracy between calibers. The smaller calibers below .40 are a nuisance to clean because they require small (thin) ramrods. Above .54 you tend to go through a lot of powder and lead. The only appreciable difference is if you are shooting gongs on a trail walk, calibers below .45 have a harder time moving the gongs. The longer the range and the heavier the gongs, the larger the caliber you require to move the target.
At most shoots in this area, there is nothing wrong with a .45 for target shooting. There may actually be an advantage because if you are using a barrel with a compromise twist rate (1:48), the smaller calibers may be less fussy about optimum powder charge.

cheers mooncoon
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Thanks for the reply.
I would like to make a matching pair of C/B and Flintlock.
I gather the Lyman kit guns are good way to go.
These kits Iam told are made in Italy and imported by lyman.
Anyway you/all give good advise.
BTW have you ever been to Heffly over to Kamloops way?
Iam told it is a 10 day ron-dee-view:cool:
Thanks Again:)
 
Would you consider a flinter in 62 cal?...can use round ball or shots! That gives you a whole other dimension to explore (shotgun).
I picked the NorthWest trade gun from NORTHSTARWEST. All made in USA, top quality but the difficulty level is a little higher than with a Lyman kit I believe. Check their website. That NW Trade gun also has Canadian historical significance.
 
real big bore

JacquesT said:
Would you consider a flinter in 62 cal?...can use round ball or shots! That gives you a whole other dimension to explore (shotgun).
I picked the NorthWest trade gun from NORTHSTARWEST. All made in USA, top quality but the difficulty level is a little higher than with a Lyman kit I believe. Check their website. That NW Trade gun also has Canadian historical significance.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input JacT.
I wasn't considering a smooth bore cannon but I recon it would be heard when the gong was hit:D
I will however check out the NSW site.
Thanks again:)
 
I would not call them cannons; they are light and easy to carry with not a lot of recoil. Main drawback would be no rear sight which makes learning to shoot them a challenge at first. I would lean towards doing your learning on a rifle and get a trade gun later.
Heffley is definitely worth attending. I have only missed one year since it started. You will find my wife and I in primitive. You can recognize our camp from our dog :>)

cheers mooncoon

Tradeguns3b.jpg


ParkerFieldColockb.jpg


MoonCoonb.jpg
 
Times have changed

Those are fine muzzle loaders Mooncoon.:cool:
It appears that my choice in the Lyman plains kits is either 50 or 54.
Mid south sells the kits for 364.
When I used to shoot this type of B/P 20 years ago .45 cal was mostly what was available off the self. I recon the Lyman kit is as good as any.
I'll have to do some more research and determine which is best suited for what I'll be shooting. Iam thinkin .54 but we'll see.
At the same time I should probably look into a new wardrobe:)
Presently Iam shooting a lot of cast and take part in a few CBA shoots over to Wash. State. I was to a local B/P shoot last weekend and used my 92 Browning and a Ruger Blackhawk.
Anyway thanks for the update:D
 
With round ball guns I don't think you will find one caliber intrinsically more accurate than another under similar circumstances. The larger calibers will be easier to clean and experience less wind drift than smaller balls. Conversely, You will use more powder and lead, and endure more recoil with the bigger bores. As Mooncoon correctly pointed out, though, the bigger ones do move the gongs better. I shoot 45 and 50 cal's for targets and hunting and feel no handicap compared to the 54 cal that I only use for hunting. The Patriot is one sweet pistol and since it is a 45, I'd recommend you stay with 45 cal for your long guns and carry only one size of ball in your kit for simplicity. Also, a recoil - induced flinch from a big bore is the last thing you need if you want to shoot competently and in competitions. Good luck.
 
ORANGEMAN said:
It appears that my choice in the Lyman plains kits is either 50 or 54.
Click to expand...

One consideration is weight. Most kit guns use a standard size barrel, usually 1" accross the flats. The bigger the bore, the lighter the gun. Even though .58 would be the lightest choice, I would go with .54 because less recoil and less powder and lead. I shot a .54 with a swamped barrel for quite a few years and only switched to a .50 about 3 years ago because it had a tapered swamped barrel and was noticeably lighter than my .54. My first gun was an italian hawken in .45 cal and looking back it was fairly heavy gun by comparison.
In terms of economy, the kit you are thinking of almost certainly will have a compromise twist barrel (1:48) and I would expect it to be a bit fussy about the most accurate powder charge. You might want to look into the cost of buying a drop in barrel with a slow twist (roughly 1:68) which is very forgiving of powder charge relative to accuracy.

cheers mooncoon
 
Ol' Flinter said:
With round ball guns I don't think you will find one caliber intrinsically more accurate than another under similar circumstances. The larger calibers will be easier to clean and experience less wind drift than smaller balls. Conversely, You will use more powder and lead, and endure more recoil with the bigger bores. As Mooncoon correctly pointed out, though, the bigger ones do move the gongs better. I shoot 45 and 50 cal's for targets and hunting and feel no handicap compared to the 54 cal that I only use for hunting. The Patriot is one sweet pistol and since it is a 45, I'd recommend you stay with 45 cal for your long guns and carry only one size of ball in your kit for simplicity. Also, a recoil - induced flinch from a big bore is the last thing you need if you want to shoot competently and in competitions. Good luck.
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Thanks for the reply.
Iam having a little trouble locating a .45 kit or a any 45 for that matter.
The rifle I would like is the Lyman but they have stopped offering a rifle in .45 Cal.
I know this used to be a popular way to go but like everything else B/P shooting got specialized.
Anyway.
Midsouth USA offers a Lyman kit for both Flint and Percussion.
I recon I'll order one and see what happens at the border.:)
 
You might benefit by looking at the kit guns at Track of the Wolf web site and talking to them about your ideas. My 45 cal longrifle has a 13/16 X 42" octagon barrel and has nice balance, as does the 50 cal, 7/8" X 42" gun. Conversely, my 45 cal 15/16 X 40 " is heavy to hold off-hand but is great off a bench rest and negligible recoil. The TOTW kit guns will be a bit more expensive than a Lyman but you will have a nicer gun at the end of your work. Furthermore, some of the TOTW kits are such that if you build the percussion version first, you can later fit a flintlock and barrel so have one stock and interchange the barrels and locks at less total cost than 2 separate rifles. Just a thought. When deciding on caliber vs barrel size, I have found a barrel over 5 lb seems a bit heavy unless you practice a lot but 4.5 to 5 lb is a good trade-off between managing recoil and easy- to -hold for offhand shooting. TOTW or Green Mtn Rifle Barrels websites list barrel weights for different diameters/lengths and calibers. Good luck.
 
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Swamped barrel

You folks have been more than helpful.
I went to the Track Site and was quite impressed with the selection.
Something for everyone.
Can you/all tell me if the Full length stock has any affect on accuracy?
Maybe I'll have to take a drive over to Minnesota.
How else would I get the rifles across the border.
I don't think there is an issue with the flintlock and I guess the only difference between Percussion and F/L is the Lock;)
So what is a "Swamped" barrel?
 
The only difference between a full stock and a half stock is in aesthetics. Also most 1/2 stock guns have hooked breachs which allow you to remove the barrel to clean it. Personally I like a full stock Pennsylvania type gun because I find a local barrel slows down my wobble. :>) :>) It also gives you a longer sight radius. If your eyes are weak like mine you may need a wider post type front sight and a wide square notch on the rear sight

cheers mooncoon
 
The profile of the swamped barrel is: thickest at the breach, tapering to a narrow waist about 2/3 - 3/4 way to the muzzle then wider at the muzzle but not as wide as at the breach. This taper lightens the muzzle end of the gun for overall weight reduction but most of all it is easier to hold for offhand shooting since the centre of mass is closer to the breach, between your hands. It is a very nice refinement.
I agree with Mooncoon about fullstock longrifles - better looking and every bit as accurate as a half stock. His comments on sights are right on: my experience taught me that the best hunting sights are a bit too coarse for good target work but the best target sights will fail you in poor light as when a big white-tail buck walks out to you in the deep twilight of evening.
Regardless of all the foregoing, if you are going to fall in love with a rifle she should not only be tall, slim and good looking but also be able to cook, I always say!
I have been importing kits and various gun parts from TOTW for about 5 years and had no border hassles whatsoever. I order on line and it arrives about 3 weeks later. You will pay shipping and GST (probably also provincial sales tax too) Good luck.
 
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ORANGEMAN said:
You folks have been more than helpful.
I went to the Track Site and was quite impressed with the selection.
Something for everyone.
Can you/all tell me if the Full length stock has any affect on accuracy?
Maybe I'll have to take a drive over to Minnesota.
How else would I get the rifles across the border.
I don't think there is an issue with the flintlock and I guess the only difference between Percussion and F/L is the Lock;)
So what is a "Swamped" barrel?
Click to expand...

If you went for a smooth bore flinter, you could easily mail order. I had two come across the border as kit and there was no trouble at all...but be aware of the difficulty levels amongst kit...drilling and tapping, inletting, etc...different kits different difficulty levels...with the first kit I ordered, I had asked the seller to confirm that the flash hole was included (thinking it would be drilled into the barrel)...when I receive it the kit, the flash hole insert was included alright, but in a seperate bag...I had to tap anf drill the flash hole insert...
J
 
Thanks guys

I put in an order for a track of the Wolf Catalog. It should be at my box in a couple of days. I want the catalog so as I can look at the prospects and what goes with the different.
I got a :kickInTheNuts: from the BAFTE.
They turned down my form six.
They don't like it when you try to help out. I sent them a copy of my Reregistration Forms rather than write down all the information.
Anyway thanks for the information I can take it to the bank and will be helpful when choosing my new rifles.:)
 
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