what did I just buy?

2stumpy

2stumpy

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I just paid $150 for a Mauser 303 British. I thought it would be easier to find information on it. Does anyone recognise these markings or know where I can look up the history by the serial numbers.

5733928828696603842


5733928831089200434


the stock has been altered but the serial numbers do all match. there are a lot of other numbers and symbols on it. is there anywhere to look these up?

5733928808392178738


5733928828414187554


5733936340294958210


5733936122678799106


I would appreciate any info you have.
 
Likely a P-14. They are certainly a Mauser, even though designed in England and made in America. Million-odd built.

And they eat .303 shells.

One of the very best rifles ever made.

Or it could be a Bannerman Springfield, another Mauser type of which 100 were made. Sort of scarce, you might say.

Or it might be one of the Lithuanian prototypes. How many? Half a dozen?

Interesting, no matter what.

Pictures would REALLY help.
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The work was done in Birmingham and the ex-Service Pattern 14 rifle was turned into rather a VERY nice sporter.

Parker-Hale did quite a few of these rifles, Churchill did others, John Rigby even did some, BSA did more and supplied thousands to small shops which put their own names on them.

From the stock, I would think this one was done about 1960.

The '16 on the barrel is the date that barrel was installed on your rifle. It is highly likely that it is also the date of manufacture of the original rifle. These were actually built in the USA by Winchester, Remington and Remington's huge new plant at Eddystone, Pennsylvania. Parts will be marked accordingly with the respective initial of the making company.

As I said previously, these are one of the finest rifles ever built, anywhere. Your rifle has been converted too far to ever restore it as a military piece, so what you are left with is possibly the single finest Moose gun ever made. They are rugged (only one very small part EVER breaks and it can be fixed permanently for 5 cents). Load them properly and they are utterly reliable. They are powerful enough to anchor ANYTHING in North America with one round and they have a barrel which will outlast most commercial barrels about 3 or 4 to 1.

They are extremely accurate. I have one here, about a third as pretty as yours, which makes just a single hole at 145 yards for 6 rounds. It eats Hornady 150-grain Spire Point bullets and 40 grains of 4064 powder, which is a fairly zippy load but certainly not tops. Seat to the OAL of a military round; looks funny but the rifle likes it. If you want a heavier bullet, I would suggest the Sierra Pro-Hunter 180. Note that both of these are FLAT-based bullets. Your rifle has Enfield rifling and that is what Enfield rifling works best with and lasts longest with.

And that preference for a flatbase bullet is the ONLY drawback I can think of for a P-14.

A point to remember. These rifles sold for $26 each in 1916. That was 1.3 Troy ounces of gold, which was $20 an ounce at that time. Gold now is close to $1800, so that works out to about $2400 in today's "money". To buy a rifle of this quality, made by these methods, to these standards, would set you back at least $2400 today. They ordered quality, quality was built and you HAVE it. I DO hope you appreciate what you have; far too many do not. That is why you see them cheap on the EE and in shops.

Take care of the old girl and she will fill your freezer until your grandson takes over the job...... with this rifle.

Hope this helps.
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smellie said:
As I said previously, these are one of the finest rifles ever built, anywhere. Your rifle has been converted too far to ever restore it as a military piece, so what you are left with is possibly the single finest Moose gun ever made. They are rugged (only one very small part EVER breaks and it can be fixed permanently for 5 cents). Load them properly and they are utterly reliable. They are powerful enough to anchor ANYTHING in North America with one round and they have a barrel which will outlast most commercial barrels about 3 or 4 to 1.

....

A point to remember. These rifles sold for $26 each in 1916. That was 1.3 Troy ounces of gold, which was $20 an ounce at that time. Gold now is close to $1800, so that works out to about $2400 in today's "money". To buy a rifle of this quality, made by these methods, to these standards, would set you back at least $2400 today. They ordered quality, quality was built and you HAVE it. I DO hope you appreciate what you have; far too many do not. That is why you see them cheap on the EE and in shops.

Take care of the old girl and she will fill your freezer until your grandson takes over the job...... with this rifle.

Hope this helps.
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Click to expand...

Firearms are the ultimate durable consumer goods. To echo Smellie, I have a converted Model 1917 with a Pattern 1914 bolt in .300 Win Mag. It was my #1 hunting rifle until I got tired of loading one at a time from the top. Made during WWI with good steel and an excellent design.
 
Thank you very much for your history. You have increased my appreciation for this rifle. I originally thought I was buying a Lee Enfield being sentimental to my cadet days. I am new to hunting so I was picturing it as a deer or other big game gun. The bore is clean and it has been very accurate and reliable in the few trials I have had with it. I was quoted $250 to install a 4x scope on it. would you consider that a wise investment in such an old rifle?

I also found this mark on it.
IMG_20120319_204147.jpg

is this the company initial or would that be the BM?
 
The only thing left to say is that if you really want a scoped one, you're probably better off watching the EE and buying one already fitted with at least bases than paying $250. to have them fitted.

That stock is better put in the scrap walnut pile and a proper sporter fitted. Boyd's and others make them in wood or synthetic. You might even find one in laminate.

If the bore is excellent it would be worth the work and cost to restock and scope because excellent bores in the P14/M17 are getting hard to find 90+ years after they stopped making them.
 
Bases are worth $4 x 2 = $8
Rings should be $25 - 30
D&T 4 holes should be $60 - 80

Regular shop prices.

For the $$ you are quoted, he had better toss in a pretty decent scope.

I have a 1960 Weaver steel-tube K-4 on mine; it does the 275-metre plates shot for shot.

If you don't like the prices, get another quote.

Lovely old rifle.

Enjoy.
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Stumpy, forgive the hijack but I have a rifle similar to yours and I'd love to know what type of mount to use. Your receiver has been altered like mine, maybe we could both benefit from someone who knows.
 
Swiend said:
Stumpy, forgive the hijack but I have a rifle similar to yours and I'd love to know what type of mount to use. Your receiver has been altered like mine, maybe we could both benefit from someone who knows.
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X2. I did a google search, but wasn't totaly impressed with anything I found there. I'ld be very interested in smellie's recomendations here. He mentioned the mounts, and I think I know the style he was talking about, but brand names and model #'s would be greatly apreciated.
 
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Whether a rifle is worth scopeing or not is a very personal preference. A bought a beautiful #4 mk1 Parker Hale for a trifle of $180. I completely refinished it Then, as my eyes are getting older and it's harder to use the issue iron sights, I had it scoped for more than the rifle costs but it was worth it to me. I still could not have bought a comparable commercial rifle scoped for the same price. And even if I could I still love Lee Enfields too much.
 
2stumpy said:
Thank you very much for your history. You have increased my appreciation for this rifle. I originally thought I was buying a Lee Enfield being sentimental to my cadet days. I am new to hunting so I was picturing it as a deer or other big game gun. The bore is clean and it has been very accurate and reliable in the few trials I have had with it. I was quoted $250 to install a 4x scope on it. would you consider that a wise investment in such an old rifle?
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The steel in the P14/M17 is unbelievably hard. If the gunsmith says $250 to drill and tap, get it as a firm quote in writing, because he is going to spend more time than he thinks doing it. The old-time gunsmiths worked out spot annealing and localized heat retreatment tricks to get the steel soft enough to drill without breaking all their drill bits. The other charges are just retail parts.

2stumpy said:
[/B]I also found this mark on it.
IMG_20120319_204147.jpg

is this the company initial or would that be the BM?
Click to expand...

As has been said, this is a proofmark, commonly called a Broad Arrow. It means when the British Army inspected and accepted the part or piece, some guy laid a stamp on the piece and smacked it with a hammer to make a permanent acceptant mark. Think of it as a final Quality Control mark.
 
My rifle is a BSA factory conversion in the semi-custom grade.

The forward receiver ring is as issued, the rear of the receiver has had the "ears" and rear sight removed, right side of the receiver drilled and tapped for an aperture sight.

Best of all, it was scoped when purchased, using a brand-new 1960 steel-tube Weaver K-4.

So, while everybody else was Googling and getting confused, I took the scope off and actually LOOKED AT the bases. I know this is old-time technology, but it works and it's cheap.

FRONT base is a Weaver Number 35.

REAR base is a Weaver Number 36.

The top of the rear receiver ring on my rifle is gently contoured; it is a perfect match for the curve on the underside of the 36 base. I point this out because there are at least THREE different receiver contours on these rifles, depending upon who did the conversion. All three are listed on the Weaver factory CHART.

For an original rifle, the fastest, easiest and cheapest way to convert to a scope is simply to remove the rear sight and put it away in your shooting-tool chest in its own little box. Then you purchase and install an S&K Insta-Mount for the 1914/1917 Enfield. This costs about $120 but it is about as SOLID as Mount Logan. Put it on, reef it up good and tight and install your scope; your rifle will NOT wander.

When I worked in shops, I sold a lot of S&K mounts. They are expensive but they are SOLID. And the answer is "yes": I DO have one on my own Number 4 target rifle.

Hope this helps.
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