What does it cost to shoot .338 Lapua?
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Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
You are looking at 50 to 60cents per bullet, 5 cents per match primer, 90+grains of powder, and an expensive case. As to the number of firings per case, that will depend on how hot you shoot for best accuracy.
Not cheap at all.
Less expensive approach only in 'case' savings, are the wildcats based on the 300RUM case. I have a design called the 338 Mystic which will exceed the Lapua. The 338 Edge is becoming very popular in the US and is simply a 338-300RUM. This will meet and exceed a Lapua.
Biggest hindrance of the Lapua is the head size. Yes, many actions can be converted to be used (more costs) but the RUM is an off the rack cartridge.
If you plan on doing a lot of LR shooting, a RUM based case will save you quite a bit over the long haul. Equally accurate and potentially more powerful.
If and when the Lapua becomes a NATO designated cartridge, things will change dramatically. Surplus brass should bring the costs down a bunch. Then the whole world of improved Lapua cases makes sense.
Have you looked at the large case 30's launching 200 to 220gr bullets? A bit cheaper and lots of horsepower. Way easier to find components too. A 300Wby launching 210gr VLD bullets at 3000fps provides a lot of whomping at 1KM.
A big case 6.5 or 7mm is all that is necessary if you want to plink to the mile and beyond. My 7RM will keep up with any larger bore cannon from a ballistics standpoint (yep, even the BMG). Just no where near the hitting power. My goal is to start shooting again to 2KM, maybe even further.
For civi use, the Lapua is a bit small for extreme range hunting, a bit big for moderate range hunting, expensive but unique. If you can't afford $1 to $1.25 per bang (and the hassel of finding components), you may want to look elsewhere.
Jerry
Not cheap at all.
Less expensive approach only in 'case' savings, are the wildcats based on the 300RUM case. I have a design called the 338 Mystic which will exceed the Lapua. The 338 Edge is becoming very popular in the US and is simply a 338-300RUM. This will meet and exceed a Lapua.
Biggest hindrance of the Lapua is the head size. Yes, many actions can be converted to be used (more costs) but the RUM is an off the rack cartridge.
If you plan on doing a lot of LR shooting, a RUM based case will save you quite a bit over the long haul. Equally accurate and potentially more powerful.
If and when the Lapua becomes a NATO designated cartridge, things will change dramatically. Surplus brass should bring the costs down a bunch. Then the whole world of improved Lapua cases makes sense.
Have you looked at the large case 30's launching 200 to 220gr bullets? A bit cheaper and lots of horsepower. Way easier to find components too. A 300Wby launching 210gr VLD bullets at 3000fps provides a lot of whomping at 1KM.
A big case 6.5 or 7mm is all that is necessary if you want to plink to the mile and beyond. My 7RM will keep up with any larger bore cannon from a ballistics standpoint (yep, even the BMG). Just no where near the hitting power. My goal is to start shooting again to 2KM, maybe even further.
For civi use, the Lapua is a bit small for extreme range hunting, a bit big for moderate range hunting, expensive but unique. If you can't afford $1 to $1.25 per bang (and the hassel of finding components), you may want to look elsewhere.
Jerry
But you can buy loaded factory 338 Lapua for $160 a box of 20, such a deal. :wink: It isn't cheap when compared to the cost of a 223 or 308, not particularly more expensive then any other boomer, cheaper then some. It all depends what you want to do, and in what style you would like to do it. You want to shoot on the cheap? This isn't the cartridge for you. Some folks like expensive whiskey, some folks like cheap beer, either way you can get loaded. - dan
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
I guess that depends on what you consider extreme and if bucking wind at LR is a priority. Try this site for some real boomers.
www.longrangehunting.com.
The Lapua is on the small side of the scale. Only the 338 RUM is smaller. The 340Wby isn't even in the running.
Jerry
www.longrangehunting.com.
The Lapua is on the small side of the scale. Only the 338 RUM is smaller. The 340Wby isn't even in the running.
Jerry
I have enjoyed my 30-378 WBY Accumark as a long range gun. I would imagine that the .340 WBY (in the right hands) could be "in the running". I have found it to be a rather friendly case.
The ".338 Edge" was mentioned earlier as a popular wildcat among long range shooters.
What advantage does it has over the humble (and readily available) .338 RUM? Is it diffrent just for the sake of being diffrent.
If so, I can dig that. I have never heard of a a .338 Mystic before. Are the reamer dimensions available for me to look at anywhere? What is its parent case? RUM?
I have a feeling that my next long range project will be built on the .404 Dakota case.
This has been an interesting thread.
The ".338 Edge" was mentioned earlier as a popular wildcat among long range shooters.
What advantage does it has over the humble (and readily available) .338 RUM? Is it diffrent just for the sake of being diffrent.
If so, I can dig that. I have never heard of a a .338 Mystic before. Are the reamer dimensions available for me to look at anywhere? What is its parent case? RUM?
I have a feeling that my next long range project will be built on the .404 Dakota case.
This has been an interesting thread.
mysticplayer
just curious what you would consider as "big boomer" since the 338LM is on the light side as you say. The 338 Yogi will push a 300gr pill 3100ish, the 338/416rigby that a guy on longrangehunting shoots does around 3200ish. To me anything that pushes a 300gr 3000fps+ is a "big boomer".
cheers
just curious what you would consider as "big boomer" since the 338LM is on the light side as you say. The 338 Yogi will push a 300gr pill 3100ish, the 338/416rigby that a guy on longrangehunting shoots does around 3200ish. To me anything that pushes a 300gr 3000fps+ is a "big boomer".
cheers
The 300 RUM case is longer and has slightly larger case capacity then the 338 RUM. This was done to allow all 338 bullets to be used in the 700 action/magazine box. So a 338-300 RUM Improved (338 Edge) would have slightly more powder capacity then a stock 338 RUM. The 338 LM has slightly more capacity then that, but you need a fair bit fof barrel to make it all work properly. The 338-378 and 338-416 are pretty much identical (the wby has a belt and radiused shoulders, the 338-416 Rigby does not). I'm not sure what changes Jerry makes to the RUM case for his 338 Mystic (I'm interested tho'). As to the boomer thing, well, for some folks they start with the big 400+ cases, for others it's how big the hole in the end of the barrel is, for yet others, it's how fast you can make a certain weight of projectile go. It's all good fun. - dan
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
For me and in the context of extreme range hunting/varminting/rock busting (distances beyond 1500yds), the 338 cal is pretty much king..for now. The 300grMK is the most readily available bullet with the BC high enough to get the job done way the hell out there (effectively used beyond 2500yds). Wildcat is making some very nice exotics so this can change.
The goal is to maintain a velocity above the transonic range as long as possible. There is a concern that accuracy can go south badly when a bullet enters the transonic velocity and/or goes subsonic
So, the higher the muzzle velocity the better. Also, the higher the muzzle velocity, the less time of flight and less influence by the wind - all good things. In general, 2900fps is a bare min, 3000fps and faster is much better. Going over 3400fps does silly things to the 300gr MK so that becomes a mechanical maximum.
Think about it - 300gr bullet going 3300fps :shock: :shock:
You accomplish this two ways - big case or long barrel. Best of course is big case and long barrel (30" or longer). Yes, some monster cannons run barrels of 40" and longer. Talk to Lilja if this is of interest.
Until the RUM, there was the WBY (340 and 378) and the Lapua case. I left out the small proprietory cases as you still need to be able to get the stuff readily. Don't know of any Lazz suppliers in Canada and the Cdn Imperial didn't get going (Thanks Big green
). Plus costs go straight up.
The Lapua will not launch 300grMK at 3000fps from even long barrels. I don't believe in Kaboom type pressures. The 340Wby is way too small. Some used the 338-378 to excellent effect but the belt and case bulging becomes a pain.
A bit of digging brought out the 338-416Rigby improved. This case is equal or bigger then the Wby without a belt, excellent brass, and accurate. An instant success. With a 36" barrels, reaching 3300fps is not out of the question. That is serious horsepower. Just drop those numbers into a ballistic program then look at impact velocity and energy at 1500yds on out.
I was surprised to find out that this case was tested by the US Army in the 80's as a LR sniper/material destruction rd. Pity they didn't adopt it. Could you imagine the surplus brass...
So, here comes the RUM. Readily available, dirt cheap brass by comparison, and waiting to be wildcatted. Took about 2 min for new reamers to be designed.
The 338RUM case is smaller then the Lapua so already fighting an uphill battle. The next logical choice, the 300RUM case. This has been expanded to the 338-300RUM or 338 Edge. This case volume with a long throat exceeds the Lapua by a tangible amount and is pretty much the same as the Yogi (Lapua improved).
From there, we improve and modify the RUM case and voila, the Tomahawk and my idea of a better mousetrap, the 338 Mystic. Both will increase case capacity over the Edge by 3 to 8gr of slow ball powder. That increases the potential muzzle velocity by 50 to 100fps. Not a big deal but when faster is better, the small changes make sense, especially if running loooooong barrels.
These two wildcats get you pretty close to the 338-378 and wildcats, and the 338-416R without spending $2.50 per case.
The 30 cal is wonderful and a big case like the Wby/300AI, RUM, and 378Wby can do some wonderful things. For distances inside 1200yds, the Wby and RUM launching 200 to 220gr bullets makes a fantastic thumper. The 378 and long barrel RUMs just do the same thing further. These have been used effectively at a mile.
So, if 600yds is a long ways for you, then the Lapua, even the 338 Win mag is plenty. But if your goal is extreme range plinking, bigger is better.
Saying all this, I am playing with a couple of 7RMs and 162gr Amax. Amazing ballistics. No issue getting these to 2000yds, I think. Will have to find out after hunting season. Now that is cheap extreme plinking...
Jerry
PS Unless they have changed, aren't the Dakotas just shorter RUM's? If so case capacity is still "small". Funny, in this game 85gr of powder is small :wink:
The goal is to maintain a velocity above the transonic range as long as possible. There is a concern that accuracy can go south badly when a bullet enters the transonic velocity and/or goes subsonic
So, the higher the muzzle velocity the better. Also, the higher the muzzle velocity, the less time of flight and less influence by the wind - all good things. In general, 2900fps is a bare min, 3000fps and faster is much better. Going over 3400fps does silly things to the 300gr MK so that becomes a mechanical maximum.
Think about it - 300gr bullet going 3300fps :shock: :shock:
You accomplish this two ways - big case or long barrel. Best of course is big case and long barrel (30" or longer). Yes, some monster cannons run barrels of 40" and longer. Talk to Lilja if this is of interest.
Until the RUM, there was the WBY (340 and 378) and the Lapua case. I left out the small proprietory cases as you still need to be able to get the stuff readily. Don't know of any Lazz suppliers in Canada and the Cdn Imperial didn't get going (Thanks Big green
). Plus costs go straight up.The Lapua will not launch 300grMK at 3000fps from even long barrels. I don't believe in Kaboom type pressures. The 340Wby is way too small. Some used the 338-378 to excellent effect but the belt and case bulging becomes a pain.
A bit of digging brought out the 338-416Rigby improved. This case is equal or bigger then the Wby without a belt, excellent brass, and accurate. An instant success. With a 36" barrels, reaching 3300fps is not out of the question. That is serious horsepower. Just drop those numbers into a ballistic program then look at impact velocity and energy at 1500yds on out.
I was surprised to find out that this case was tested by the US Army in the 80's as a LR sniper/material destruction rd. Pity they didn't adopt it. Could you imagine the surplus brass...
So, here comes the RUM. Readily available, dirt cheap brass by comparison, and waiting to be wildcatted. Took about 2 min for new reamers to be designed.
The 338RUM case is smaller then the Lapua so already fighting an uphill battle. The next logical choice, the 300RUM case. This has been expanded to the 338-300RUM or 338 Edge. This case volume with a long throat exceeds the Lapua by a tangible amount and is pretty much the same as the Yogi (Lapua improved).
From there, we improve and modify the RUM case and voila, the Tomahawk and my idea of a better mousetrap, the 338 Mystic. Both will increase case capacity over the Edge by 3 to 8gr of slow ball powder. That increases the potential muzzle velocity by 50 to 100fps. Not a big deal but when faster is better, the small changes make sense, especially if running loooooong barrels.
These two wildcats get you pretty close to the 338-378 and wildcats, and the 338-416R without spending $2.50 per case.
The 30 cal is wonderful and a big case like the Wby/300AI, RUM, and 378Wby can do some wonderful things. For distances inside 1200yds, the Wby and RUM launching 200 to 220gr bullets makes a fantastic thumper. The 378 and long barrel RUMs just do the same thing further. These have been used effectively at a mile.
So, if 600yds is a long ways for you, then the Lapua, even the 338 Win mag is plenty. But if your goal is extreme range plinking, bigger is better.
Saying all this, I am playing with a couple of 7RMs and 162gr Amax. Amazing ballistics. No issue getting these to 2000yds, I think. Will have to find out after hunting season. Now that is cheap extreme plinking...
Jerry
PS Unless they have changed, aren't the Dakotas just shorter RUM's? If so case capacity is still "small". Funny, in this game 85gr of powder is small :wink:
mysticplayer, thank you fro your detailed analysis.
I feel whimpy around you extreme range guys. For me, 600-800 yards is about the envelope of my ability- and it better be a calm day for that.
I am interested in the 404 Dakota case because Lapua is now making the brass for them.
I feel whimpy around you extreme range guys. For me, 600-800 yards is about the envelope of my ability- and it better be a calm day for that.
I am interested in the 404 Dakota case because Lapua is now making the brass for them.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
sakabush, I would look for something already necked to my desired cal. Going from 404 to say 7mm is a royal pain. They make brass in all cals. Problem will be getting them and at what cost.
I am hoping the 7RM will work as well at 2000 as it has out to 1000yds. That drops my per shot cost almost in half and components are everywhere. These 162gr Amax fly right up there with the big heavy 30 and 338's. Simply amazing.
Shooting them in wind really shows you how high their BC is. 1/4 the wind drift as compared to a 308. Really helps you make the shot.
Not ideal as a LR BR light rifle case as barrels would heat up too fast. But for a heavy rifle, I think this could hold its own. I have heard of a number of 1000BR shooters doing well with 7WSM's.
LR is about the bullet. When new good ones come out, the best cartridge will change.
Jerry
I am hoping the 7RM will work as well at 2000 as it has out to 1000yds. That drops my per shot cost almost in half and components are everywhere. These 162gr Amax fly right up there with the big heavy 30 and 338's. Simply amazing.
Shooting them in wind really shows you how high their BC is. 1/4 the wind drift as compared to a 308. Really helps you make the shot.
Not ideal as a LR BR light rifle case as barrels would heat up too fast. But for a heavy rifle, I think this could hold its own. I have heard of a number of 1000BR shooters doing well with 7WSM's.
LR is about the bullet. When new good ones come out, the best cartridge will change.
Jerry
