What does temp stable mean?

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What does a powder that exhibits good temperature stability mean?

Roughly speaking, as I understand it... a temp stable powder means that a powder shot at 30°C will lose very little cowbell when shot at 1°C, or vice versa... you could theoretically develop max charge load at 1°...and then shoot it at 30° and not blow the gun up. And a not so stable powder shoots drastically slower or faster based on the powders temperature therefore requiring the load to be developed closer to the conditions it will be shot in.

But... is there more to it than that? Would a not stable powder also have a preference for the temperature it is before it gets lit? I.e, a non-stable powder would prefer to be lit at 15°C and burns well... but behave irratically if lit at 1° or 30°.
 
It means that the velocity of your projectile will change only minimally with the outside temperature or the temperature of the ammunition as affected by being in the sun or a hot chamber.

Different kinds of powder are affected to different extents.

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Long Range Shooting Handbook and Advanced Long Range Shooting by Ryan M. Kleckner

Both are available on Amazon, and provide excellent information for anyone interested in rifle shooting.
 
I feel the term is mainly used in reference to not being slower in cold weather or faster in hot weather.

here's some comparisons I've recorded for you gun nutters :

5.56 Ruger Scout rifle
  • Alliant AR Comp (stable) -15c 2993 fps SD22, +29c 2966 fps SD26
  • Hodgdon H322 (stable) -15c 2948 fps SD30, +29c 2946 fps SD17
  • Win 748 (sensitive) -15c 2817 fps SD29, +29c 2932 fps SD17
  • IMR 4198 (sensitive) -15c 2933 fps SD59, +29c 2953 fps SD40
  • IMR 4166 (stable) -15c 3052 fps SD61, +29c 2981 fps SD24
 
6.5 Creedmoor Tikka CTR

  • H4350 (stable) -15c 2630 fps SD23, +29c 2629 fps SD10
  • IMR 4451 (stable) -15c 2704 fps SD14, +29c 2674 fps SD14
  • IMR 4831 (sensitive) -15c 2447 fps SD7, +29c 2523 fps SD12
  • Win760 (sensitive) -15c 2528 fps SD16, +29c 2619 fps SD26
  • RL16 (Stable) -15c 2687 fps SD12, +29c 2670 fps SD26
 
7mm Rem Mag Tikka T3x Lite

  • IMR 7977 (stable) -15c 2745 fps SD41, +29c 2803 fps SD11
  • IMR 4831 (sensitive) -15c 2641 fps SD6, +29c 2767 fps SD14
  • RL22 (sensitive) -15c 2772 fps SD12, +29c 2914 fps SD10
  • RL23 (stable) -15c 2887 fps SD14, +29c 2897 fps SD19
  • H4831sc (stable) -15c 2761 fps SD8, +29c 2787 fps SD12
 
308 Win Ruger Scout rifle

  • Hodgdon H4895 (stable) -15c 2482 fps SD14, +29c 2461 fps SD20
  • IMR 4166 (stable) -15c 2546 fps SD17, +29c 2517 fps SD11
  • IMR 4064 (sensitive) -15c 2428 fps SD8, +29c 2496 fps SD10
  • Alliant AR Comp (stable) -15c 2360 fps SD24, +29c 2337 fps SD10
  • Win 748 (sensitive) -15c 2426 fps SD21, +29c 2477 fps SD12
 
If my math is right, over a 44 degree Celsius shift, powders that aren't marketed as temp stable varied on average 86 fps (1.95 fps per degree celsius), while powders marketed as insensitive to temperature varied on average 26 fps (0.59 fps per degree) which is 1/3 the velocity shift as non stable propellants

Edit** Found some more info from last year

22 ARC factory 62gr Vmatch
+28c 3321 fps
-18c 3259 fps
1.35fps per degree C (could be better, could be worse)

6mm ARC 100gr TGK / Leverevolution
+28c 2820 fps
+15c 2752 fps
+3c 2734 fps
Cold Cold weather data to come (tis the season)
- 3.4 fps per degree (terrible temp stability)

6.5 Grendel 120tgk / Alliant AR COMP
+28c 2502 fps
+7c 2517 fps
Cold weather data to come
0.7fps per degree (excellent stability)

5.56 Ruger 40gr SBK / Dominion 8208BR
+28c 3434 fps
+5c 3408 fps
Cold Weather data to come
1.1 fps per degree (pretty damn respectable)

204 Ruger 39sbk / Alliant AR Comp
+28c 3589 fps
-18c 3601 fps
0.3fps per degree (most excellent)

280Ack 165gr TGK / Viht N555
+28c 2776 fps
+12c 2774 fps
Cold weather data to come
0.1 fps per degree (wowza, I will be testing this one soon when temps get downright winter NASTYYY)

5.56 Ruger 55 Vmax / Dominion D8208BR
+28c 3004 fps
+5c 2919 fps
Cold weather data to come
3.7 fps per degree C (compared to 1.1 fps with 40gr SBK - funny how different loads can react different in temps with same powder type...maybe a chamber PSI thing? This load a lot milder than the 40SBK)

204 Ruger 32vmax / Viht N530
+28c 3901 fps
-18c 3695 fps
4.5 fps per degree (this powder turns the 204 into a jekyll and hyde depending on season)

Follow me for more recipe ideas, PM me with info on how to donate < lol emoji >
 
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One last one before I go to bed

6.5 Creedmoor, Tikka T3x CTR 20" barrel
140gr Barnes Match Burner, Alpha brass
5 shot averages in each temperature

Hodgdon H4350
+29c = 2551 fps
-2c = 2555 fps
(0.13 fps per degree C)

Win 760 ball powder
+29c = 2643 fps
-2c = 2582 fps
(1.97 fps per degree C)

Winchester StaBALL 6.5
+29c = 2688 fps
-2c = 2694 fps
(0.2 fps per degree C)
 
Thats some good info tod. Im quite surprised that some of your loads actually sped up in the cold. Any theories on that? Also what is your 280 barrel length? That seems pretty slow for the 165 tgk. My 22" spits them at 2880fps with 4831 and I was going to try n555 but may not now.
 
Thank-you very much for that excellent data Tobartell - much appreciated.

Some decades ago, one of my kids did a science project on this - we put some cartridges in the freezer before testing, and some in a plastic bag, into boiling water before testing - and the results were much less accurate and valuable than yours, but did convince me that a gun needs to be sighted in at hunting temperatures or at least compensated for.

Recent shooting - in the past week - has shown reminded me that it really does matter - two rifles shooting three inches lower at -20C at 200 yards than they did when I sighted them in at summertime temps.

Most loads seem to behave best at maximum loadings, so the decrease in velocity at low temps likely does take them out of the sweet spot - but this would seldom affect hunting (I suppose.)

It would take some seriously careful data-collecting to record the actual case temperature and powder temperature and barrel temperature and bullet temperature - they likely vary a lot for various reasons. The first shot might be from a warm cartridge, and a very cold gun - but the second may be a colder cartridge from sitting open on the bench, and from a gun which is warmed by the first shot. Then, the last shot of each group is from the warmest chamber yet the coldest cartridge, so the temperature of the cartridge is dependent on the time that it sits in the warm chamber before firing. So.... cold temperatures really do widen the range of variables too much to account for except by the behavior of the particular type of powder at different temperatures, and sighting in the rifle at temperatures at which they are to be shot.

Coffee has kicked in, so I'll babble a while longer.
My general impressions have been that finer-grained powders which measure well and are more often considered target powders tend to be affected more by temperature variations ( I'll go back and consider Todbartells data now) than the old log-grained powders - and shotgun/handgun powders are affected most of all - I've had as much as 10 percent velocity loss at - 25F in 45acp. This is enough to prevent the second ring of the cowbell if the recoil spring is fresh in a handgun - and may have to do with bullet lube type, and the the function of a semi-auto handgun or shotgun may depend on it being dry of oils in the action. (A tiny bit of lube on locking lugs being okay, the rest of the gun just gets WD or the like maybe.)

One last thing - when the primer goes off, how much it immediately warms the powder might make the biggest difference of all - so we might try testing the different primers - standard and magnum - at temperatures - this may make more difference than anything else, and the speed of the "warming" of the powder by the primer might be affected by the shape of the powder and how compressed it is in the cartridge.

This is our life - a search for the security of rules, but we find only more variables which make our rules invalid and us less certain - we become a listening child - knowing that we know little, but a seeker of some great Father-truth. A Nativity perhaps.

Merry Christmas to all.
 
Velocity gain or loss in changing temperatures, is one thing. It can be easily accounted for, by shooting and chronographing, and adjusting POA for these variables. One thing to be aware of, especially chasing max velocity loads, is that a round loaded and tested safely in late fall, could potentially be over pressure in the heat of summer with that big of a temp increase.
 
Thats some good info tod. Im quite surprised that some of your loads actually sped up in the cold. Any theories on that? Also what is your 280 barrel length? That seems pretty slow for the 165 tgk. My 22" spits them at 2880fps with 4831 and I was going to try n555 but may not now.
Metal shrinks when it is cooled. So as it gets colder your bore size reduced, even though it's a small amount, you will get to a point where you start building more pressure, which will increase velocity.
 
Thats some good info tod. Im quite surprised that some of your loads actually sped up in the cold. Any theories on that? Also what is your 280 barrel length? That seems pretty slow for the 165 tgk. My 22" spits them at 2880fps with 4831 and I was going to try n555 but may not now.

My 280AI is 22.5" , I tend to run lower psi loads than most. N555 should give a bit more velocity than 4831 at equal pressures. That 165TGK @ 2775 retains 2000 fps to 550y, I generally shoot animals much closer than that so the surplus velocity means little to me

As for the higher speed in colder weather, it seems some powders get a lil wonky when they get frostbite.
 
Barrel bore diameter gets smaller in the extreme cold. That is a fact. Almost all metals shrink when they are cooled, and the steels rifle barrels are made of all do. It is a constant, and can be figured out exactly how much.

With a smaller bore pressures will increase, that is also a fact. When you get to very cold temperatures this will start to take effect. How many shots to warm the barrel back up, and how fast it reacts and all sorts of other variables, are variables.
 
I asked Grok about the shrinkage of a 30 cal barrel in 40C degrees of temperature fall, and it came up with ( in chrome moly steel, which is going to be the worst for shrinkage) and it came up with .0005 mm or .00002 inches of diameter shrinkage which is only .5 to 1 % of tolerance of a new rifle - hardly worth a thought.

First shots might ski on hoarfrost in the bore?
 
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