What if you don't break-in a barrel?

My limited knowledge and experience:

My thoughts were as such: I need to shoot how many rounds down the barrel for break in? That's too much cost into this thing, and do they know how much each round costs?

I did a condensed version on my Fierce carbon barrel that I bought 6 years ago, and now sold. I did the shoot a few, clean, shoot a few clean for the proof barrel I got on my 6.5 PRC last year. Both of those barrels didn't settle down until close to or just over the 100 rounds down the barrel mark. The Fierce was touching 3 shot clover groups at 100 yards and the PRC, well, it is a tad better than that. This is my OCD, just for my hunting rifles, as I don't shoot competition. Noticed around the 400 round mark the groups widening up a bit on the 6.5, and after a good copper clean, 3 shots later it was back to normal. I would shoot 50 ish rounds for range trips, as I had a quest to get out and shoot out to 1000 meters. Was able to get out to the 1100 m mark comfortably, and that is a HUGE personal accomplishment for me.

Now for my next new barrel it will be to pony up the first 40 rounds or so, for some range time, with cleaning in between; and then start a load development. To fine tune it just around that 100 round mark.

Maybe its just me and it takes me that many rounds to get used to the trigger, the recoil, the comfort of the rifle, maybe there is a science in it?? But that is what I have observed so far.
 
ruby76 said:
I do the one shot clean for the first 10, then a few 3 shot groups and clean after each group. I do find it gets easier to clean as the initial process is done. Did this for factory and custom barrels. I have heard of a guy not cleaning a factory barrel until he had 40 rounds threw it, accuracy great at first then opened right up. He cleaned it good but still had terrible accuracy. I don't risk it, and not really that inconvenient to just do the break in procedure.
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Note that after a barrel truly breaks in, the load that shot well before might need to be adjusted for the 'broke in' bore.

The initial shoot clean is fine if you want to 'break in' a barrel... but when the barrel does 'break in', you will almost always need an adjustment in your load tune. And this tune should last for the useable life of the barrel.

I suspect your friends barrel will shoot like it did originally with a load tweak.... this actual 'break in' can take 25 to 250rds depending on the cartridge, pressures, powder, bullet, etc you are using.

As I said, I pay little attention to the shot/clean when new... I care alot when the bore seasons and 'breaks in".

Jerry
 
Mystic Precision said:
Note that after a barrel truly breaks in, the load that shot well before might need to be adjusted for the 'broke in' bore.

The initial shoot clean is fine if you want to 'break in' a barrel... but when the barrel does 'break in', you will almost always need an adjustment in your load tune. And this tune should last for the useable life of the barrel.

I suspect your friends barrel will shoot like it did originally with a load tweak.... this actual 'break in' can take 25 to 250rds depending on the cartridge, pressures, powder, bullet, etc you are using.

As I said, I pay little attention to the shot/clean when new... I care alot when the bore seasons and 'breaks in".

Jerry
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Fully agree with your points. On my rifles I do tweak the load after it settles in and then do not clean it. I'll get 50 plus rounds through it before even trying to tune a load, with at least once fired brass.
 
OP - I seldom have chance to start with a "factory new" rifle - but the few that I did get, had already been fired - I believe by the factory - and not cleaned - so for first one or two, I dutifully did do the barrel break-in thing - clean bore with copper remover after each shot for 8 or 10 shots, then shot twice before cleaning and so on. I was under the impression that I had one chance to do so correctly, and must be done with those first shots.

Since then, I have also taken factory new rifles and just shot them - cleaned out to bare steel with good copper cleaner after that day - and went out to shoot again another day - no agenda, no plan - as other have mentioned, I can not say that I noticed a pile of difference after 50 rounds - so Ruger, Remington and Winchester brands. I do not recall a new "Savage" rifle, except a falling block (Model 30GM?) "Favourite" in 22 Magnum - so was not a centre fire.

Now I have a McGowen custom barrel on the bench. And an unfired Schutz and Larsen Palma barrel screwed into a M1917 receiver. Those barrels are going to get the "full meal deal" - I am sure they are precision enough to warrant some extra care. I am not convinced that the other "new" factory ones were - but is just my take on the matter - I do not have any "facts" or "targets" or "trophies" to back that up.
 
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No need unless manufacturer specify it in the user manual. The concept of break in the barrel was for the old days when barrel lapping wasn't perfect and there were burs within the rifling that need to be smoothened by firing rounds through. Nowadays the machines are so precise that we do not need to smoothened the rifling, so no need.
 
Potashminer said:
OP - I seldom have chance to start with a "factory new" rifle - but the few that I did get, had already been fired - I believe by the factory - and not cleaned - so for first one or two, I dutifully did do the barrel break-in thing - clean bore with copper remover after each shot for 8 or 10 shots, then shot twice before cleaning and so on. I was under the impression that I had one chance to do so correctly, and must be done with those first shots.

Since then, I have also taken factory new rifles and just shot them - cleaned out to bare steel with good copper cleaner after that day - and went out to shoot again another day - no agenda, no plan - as other have mentioned, I can not say that I noticed a pile of difference after 50 rounds - so Ruger, Remington and Winchester brands. I do not recall a new "Savage" rifle, except a falling block (Model 30GM?) "Favourite" in 22 Magnum - so was not a centre fire.

Now I have a McGowen custom barrel on the bench. And an unfired Schutz and Larsen Palma barrel screwed into a M1917 receiver. Those barrels are going to get the "full meal deal" - I am sure they are precision enough to warrant some extra care. I am not convinced that the other "new" factory ones were - but is just my take on the matter - I do not have any "facts" or "targets" or "trophies" to back that up.
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wrt to the Mcgowen... my approach... clean the bore really really really well the first time out. There are oils from the manf in the bore. DO NOT shoot over this... barrel will be destroyed. Aerosol brake cleaner is a good idea on a few patches. If there is any red, you must get this out as that is part of the rust preventative.

This will likely be the most and deepest cleaning you will ever need to do.

The first couple of shots when you sight in may not be true as the bore fouls up (do not use a near max load as it will likely pop).... sight in, start working up your load... That's it.

If you are curious, clean the bore after the first sight in.. say 5 rds. Any copper? if yes, then clean after each test group with a fouler or two before settling in for accuracy test.

That's it... these are lapped barrels. if there is a bit of roughness in the chambering process, it wears out pretty fast.

With my 22 Creedmoor prefits since we have shot so many, I know where the load tune needs to be. I am usually sighted in and have a workable load range within 21rds.. I don't bother with a so called break in.

After the bore has seen 50 to 150rds (no way to know for sure), there will be a change in your load tune and you will likely be dropping your charge from what was ideal. For a creedmoor type case, it is likely 0.2 to 0.4grs... that's it. This is what shooters sometimes call a barrel 'speeding up'... this is what barrel break in means to me.

You are spending money for a barrel that is supposed to be made well and that means, it shoots out of the box with a good load... done, simple

Enjoy

Jerry
 
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johnl said:
I wonder if Carlos Hathcock, Simo Hayha, Chris Kyle, Rob Furlong and all the countless snipers in all the theatres over the years break in their rifles or is it just for folks who punch paper:p
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I'm guessing that all there rifles were "turn key" meaning they were already broken in and shooting well.

A well built, 1/2 MOA rifle can make any shooter (within reason) look good, it's getting there that really separates the "men from the boys". It requires patience and quality materials and skill, and getting it "right". The "end user" just basks in the glory of the rifle builder.
 
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Not sure about that. I suspect some of the rifles were simply "off the rack", and using standard issued "GI" ammo - and with tons of practice, that level of shooter knew "exactly" the capability of his system, and kept his shots within high probability of first round hit. To some is a "foreign" concept - that someone could be extremely lethal with a 3 MOA rifle - for a long, long distance. Do not have to hit a particular 1/4" to create a casualty - turns out humans are usually not nearly as tolerant of bullet holes, as some game animals.
 
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johnl said:
I wonder if Carlos Hathcock, Simo Hayha, Chris Kyle, Rob Furlong and all the countless snipers in all the theatres over the years break in their rifles or is it just for folks who punch paper:p
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This comment is interesting as it seems to elevate snipers as people who are at the top of their accuracy game which is generally a falsehood.

If you ever conversed with a sniper they will tell you their accuracy standard is minute of chest. Any hit is a good hit. These record long shots are almost never a singe round hit and if it was, it is mathematically just luck.

There are plenty of civilians who are more than capable of outshooting most snipers and that is not just because of skill... the equipment used by the military is general issue, not custom rifle, custom hand loaded ammo like civilians use.

Not to categorically say top snipers are not necessarily good shooters, but don't confuse shooting skill with a death count. One does not equate to the other.
 
If I'm to believe all those History channel shows about snipers, one of the skills they try to master is hitting a target with the first shot, often no opportunity for sighters.
 
Grizzlypeg said:
If I'm to believe all those History channel shows about snipers, one of the skills they try to master is hitting a target with the first shot, often no opportunity for sighters.
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Very true. BUT! What is the average distance a sniper will engage at. For urban settings the average is probably under 100 meters. For rural/field settings I’m betting it’s not more than 4-500 meters. And as has been mentioned - they go for minute-of-chest.

There are always exceptions, like the shot/shots taken by Rob Furlong or Chris Kyle. I remember reading someplace that the majority of Chris Kyle’s engagements were under 200.
 
KePet said:
Very true. BUT! What is the average distance a sniper will engage at. For urban settings the average is probably under 100 meters. For rural/field settings I’m betting it’s not more than 4-500 meters. And as has been mentioned - they go for minute-of-chest.

There are always exceptions, like the shot/shots taken by Rob Furlong or Chris Kyle. I remember reading someplace that the majority of Chris Kyle’s engagements were under 200.
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With all due respect,Rob Furlong's longest kill wasn't one shot either....
Cat
 
Maple57 said:
This comment is interesting as it seems to elevate snipers as people who are at the top of their accuracy game which is generally a falsehood.

If you ever conversed with a sniper they will tell you their accuracy standard is minute of chest. Any hit is a good hit. These record long shots are almost never a singe round hit and if it was, it is mathematically just luck.

There are plenty of civilians who are more than capable of outshooting most snipers and that is not just because of skill... the equipment used by the military is general issue, not custom rifle, custom hand loaded ammo like civilians use.

Not to categorically say top snipers are not necessarily good shooters, but don't confuse shooting skill with a death count. One does not equate to the other.
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Trying to not hijack the thread but here are some facts - well, I hope.

Sniper/Shooting Times/Intermedia Outdoors Inc. 2013 - Article by Tom Beckstrand : The arm of the fabled monster, page 109-110,

" ... He told me that Special Forces surveyed 108 sniper-qualified Special Forces soldiers who had recently returned from Afghanistan and Iraq. The men were asked how far away their targets were when they were employed as snipers. The results of the survey were shocking. The average distance for the shots these men made was 396 meters. This distance (435 yards) represents the average for an undetermined (by me) number of shots made by 108 men while serving in Afghanistan and Iraq. Undoubtedly, the distances in the open deserts of Afghanistan were longer than those found in the city streets of Iraq. ... "

Barrel breaking or not. Average distance: 396 meters (435 yards). How many rounds overall for the survey ? How many rounds per target ? How many misses per target ? Extreme spread - near and far ? We do not know.

The odds for a first round hit - repeat, first round hit - at 800 meters and over are pretty small, assuming a shot spread from, let's say 200 meters to 600 meters, for 95% of the shots.

Would barrel breaking make a difference for military snipers - at 600-800 meters and over ? Someone ever heard of barrel breaking for military snipers ?
 
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