What is a 'securely locked container or receptacle'?

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MosinMan

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The other day a friend of mine (who is interested in getting her pal) was reading my Canadian firearm safety course handbook asked me. "What is a 'securely locked container or receptacle'? (page 238) Is a metal locker bolted to the wall good enough? If I could lock my night stand could I keep it beside my bed?" Having a gun safe bolted to my house I never put much thought and to be honest I'm not truly sure. I played it off and gave her a "if you can't afford a gun safe don't get a gun" speech (to buy time for me to sneak off here). But it got me thinking what is legal and what is not legal.

Would a metal lockable locker bolted to the wall represent a 'securely locked container or receptacle' to store your firearms and ammo?

Would a wooden lockable cabinet bolted to the wall represent a 'securely locked container or receptacle' to store your firearms and ammo?

At what point does a 'securely locked container or receptacle' cease being 'securely locked container or receptacle' and breaches the law?
 
If its a container with a lock on it, you're good to go. There is no requirement to bolt it anywhere. if its non restricted it doesnt even have to be in a container. All it needs is a "secure locking device (aka trigger lock etc)" and it can be proudly displayed in your kitchen if you want.

Anything from this

Plano-Gun-Case.jpg


to this.

Cannon-Commander-Series-Gun-Safe.jpg
 
Would a metal lockable locker bolted to the wall represent a 'securely locked container or receptacle' to store your firearms and ammo? YES, and it doesn't need to be bolted to the wall.

Would a wooden lockable cabinet bolted to the wall represent a 'securely locked container or receptacle' to store your firearms and ammo? YES AGAIN, and it doesn't need to be bolted to the wall.

At what point does a 'securely locked container or receptacle' cease being 'securely locked container or receptacle' and breaches the law? When it is broken into is when it breaches the law. Doesn't matter what it is made of or how big and strong it is, if it is broken into you will be charge with unsafe storage. Whether that charge sticks is another question all together. My suggestion is to put your guns into something that YOU would find hard to break into, something that would take you more than 10 minutes to break into with basic hand tools. That would be a good guide and show the courts, if it came to that, that you were attempting to live up to the letter and spirit of the law.
 
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=699864
The Court's ruling is here (R.vs Harry Barnes, Ontario Court of Justice, reasons for judgement, 2011-06-24):

http://firearmslaw.ca/wp-content/upl...-Judgement.pdf

In my view, of particular interest are these conclusions regarding storage, safes, etc.:

"[20] The concerns expressed by Mr. Press about the vulnerability of gun storage units, such as those belonging to Mr. Barnes, to bolts cutters, sledge hammers and other methods of forced entry are understandable. Yet, Mr. Cornblum's observation, that given time and the right degree of skill, all safes are vulnerable to being broken into, is a valid one.

[21] Since a breach of the regulation leads to a criminal charge, there must be a discernable standard for licensed individuals to meet in storing automatic firearms: seeR. v. Smillie, supra at ~35. In my view, an interpretation of the word "safe" in its ordinary, dictionary meaning of a metal container with a secure lock is consistent with the objectives of the legislation and the intent of Parliament.

[22] I find that the cabinets in which the defendant's prohibited firearms were stored fall within the definition of a· safe. Both of the lockers in which the prohibited firearms were stored were made of steel. Each cabinet was securely locked: one by a key and a padlock; the other by a locking system that uses a key to unbolt rods in the door from the frame of the unit. Indeed,
despite their disagreement on other issues, the Crown and the defence expert both accepted that the units were securely locked. The Crown has not proven beyond a reasonable doubt that there was non-compliance with the regulation. The charges are dismissed."
 
Tuco Pike said:
Would a metal lockable locker bolted to the wall represent a 'securely locked container or receptacle' to store your firearms and ammo? YES, and it doesn't need to be bolted to the wall.

Would a wooden lockable cabinet bolted to the wall represent a 'securely locked container or receptacle' to store your firearms and ammo? YES AGAIN, and it doesn't need to be bolted to the wall.

At what point does a 'securely locked container or receptacle' cease being 'securely locked container or receptacle' and breaches the law? When it is broken into is when it breaches the law. Doesn't matter what it is made of or how big and strong it is, if it is broken into you will be charge with unsafe storage. Whether that charge sticks is another question all together. My suggestion is to put your guns into something that YOU would find hard to break into, something that would take you more than 10 minutes to break into with basic hand tools. That would be a good guide and show the courts, if it came to that, that you were attempting to live up to the letter and spirit of the law.
Click to expand...

You cant pick an arbitrary amount of time and say this is "safe" and this isnt. Just as their is no legal requirement for the container to be bolted anywhere, there is no where in law where it states "if it takes longer then ten minutes with basic tools, it qualifies."

To demonstrate that, heres a real safe (not a cabinet, a safe) being broken into under 2 minutes with two bars. this doesnt mean you require more then this to satisfy legal requirements. All this mean is if the criminals want your **** bad enough they're going to get it.

[youtube]nBhOjWHbD6M[/youtube]
 
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seems clear enough to me my stack on is considered good enough im happy. i also plan to have a lockable gun room but i can't find specifications. any one know what the minimum requirements would be for a room to be considered ok for restricted storage?
 
dweenz said:
seems clear enough to me my stack on is considered good enough im happy. i also plan to have a lockable gun room but i can't find specifications. any one know what the minimum requirements would be for a room to be considered ok for restricted storage?
Click to expand...

A room with locking door. If it has windows they probably need to be barred.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/storage-entreposage-eng.htm

My general rule of thumb is if it requires tools to be broken into it meets regulation.
 
•Lock the firearms in a vault, safe or room that was built or modified specifically to store firearms safely.

clear as mud? The CFC training video uses a small room/lockable closet.
 
blasted_saber said:
To demonstrate that, heres a real safe (not a cabinet, a safe) being broken into under 2 minutes with two bars. this doesnt mean you require more then this to satisfy legal requirements. All this mean is if the criminals want your **** bad enough they're going to get it.
Click to expand...
Great video, thanks. Physical security buys time, but 5 minutes costs a lot of money.
When I worked in government security, the professional entry people who tested hardware would use a sledgehammer on an axe head to beak things open, it was usually faster than power tools.

My Snap-on cabinet may legally be a safe, but the AR15 has a trigger lock on it anyway, cheaper than Johnny Sombrero's lawsuit.
 
Just think though, depending on your current living situation, if they broke into your house while you slept, the sound of your safe being knocked over would wake you up, if not the sound of your window or door being kicked open. At which point, you call the police. If you mention you have firearms and the criminals are going after your firearms, I am pretty damn sure the police response time will be a lot quicker. I know for a fact, if I had a safe, and some douchebag came into my home and tipped it over like that and started trying to pry it open, I would hear it. If I was on vacation, I would have a trusted person house sit for me while I was away. I'm army, so telling a buddy of mine they can stay at my place, rent free for a week, I wouldn't have any complaints as far as live security goes.

Plus, In my house, there is always somebody awake 24/7 and I live in an area where unlawful entry would be easily identified by my neighbors and a police response would be inevitable.

Just my 2 cents.
 
non restricted made inoperable then can be placed on display, stored with trigger lock in a closet on under a bed is safe storage as long as ammo is store seperate. when using gun safe then ammo can be stored in the same container. my .30-06 is trigger locked in a case and 3 padlocks on it, that is above and beyond what needs to be done. but all my guns have a trigger lock and locked in my closet where i have a 4 year old running around
 
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