What is so great about the 35 Whelen?

blacktailslayer

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I am wondering why everyone loves this caliber so much? I don't really know much about it other than it is based on the -06 case, so tell me more about it.
I have a remington 30-06 BDL from the early 80's, been thinking about rebarrel to 25-06 or 35 Whelen. So those that own the Whelen please feel free to tell me their experience with this caliber. Thanks!
 
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Let's you use up to 250 grain bullets in the same receiver length. The downside is that you won't likely be able to find ammo in small places. No big deal if you don't get off on a hunt only to find you left your ammo at home. You may or may not be able to find factory .35 Whelen in a small Crappy Tire. Ditto for the .25-06.
 
I have both a 35 Whelen and a 25/06. To me, they are about perfect for their bore sizes so far as the balance between efficiency (powder use, recoil, etc.) and performance (velocity and energy) is concerned.

The 35 Whelen is more than adequate for all but the big bears up to 300yds. The 25/06 is a very different beast that is excellent for everything from varmints to deer at ranges about as far as you should be shooting.
 
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The Whelen delivers a bullet big enough to kill any kind of big game that you're likely to run into in North America with considerable authority. Meanwhile, you won't experience the same level of recoil that you'd get from a .338 or even a .300 Win Mag. It's definitely "toned down".

The price you pay is having to load your own ammo ("bonus", AFAIC) and working with a slightly shorter effective distance for engaging your game due to its somewhat more pronounced trajectory (although 300 yards is very do-able).

(Check out this .35 cal site: http://www.35cal.com/)
 
Larger diameter, heavier weight bullets are almost invariably more effective on bigger animals than are smaller weight and diameter bullets, even if the latter are pushed at higher velocities. That being said, the 35 Whelen will push a 225 grain bullet at similar or slightly faster velocities than the 30-06 and 200 grainers. While I feel that the 30-06 is perfectly adequate for black Bears of any size, [have shot many, many blacks with the venerable '06] the Whelen will be just a bit more insurance. The extra .050" bullet diameter definitely makes a difference, IMHO. Regards, Eagleye.
 
What all those guys said.........

Plus ....... the Whelen is the med bore you own when you can't justify a 375H&H. I use my Whelen for deer and don't get that much opportunity to hunt moose.


sc


 
I really like my whelen for moose and elk. Especially in early season, with no tracking snow it gives me more confidence. I've killed 8 elk, one moose and one mountain caribou with it now. They travel a bit less after being hit than with my .308, and I almost always get an exit wound with 250 gr. bullets. Recoil is noticably less than my buddies' .338Win. Mag. and it appears to kill as well. I always laugh at the disclaimer " OK for all NA game except for the big bears" - I'd confidently use my Whelen on any bear that walks. I've shot lengthwise through a couple of elk and got more than 4' penetration while breaking a lot of bone. I've had good success using the 250 gr. Grand Slam bullets in this caliber.
 
sunray said:
Let's you use up to 250 grain bullets in the same receiver length.

Actually, Woodleigh makes a 310gr and Swift makes a 280gr A-Frame for those who likes heavy bullet.
 
Whelen B said:
35 WHELEN...

TOP HUNTING CARTRIDGE of the 20TH CENTURY

- article by Paco Kelly - http://35cal.com/35whelen.htm

Interesting stories from a real hunter who lived the dream of hunting in Africa.

However - 2800 fps for a 250gr bullet? 2600 from a 290gr? 300 fps more from an Improved version? Sure, just keep adding powder. The guy certainly didn't understand pressure, but neither did he report damaged guns. In the 35 Whelen, the Improved verson will only yield about 50 fps more for any given bullet weight - at the same pressure as its un-improved version. Ignore pressure, and suddenly you get the apples to oranges comparison.

Must have been written before Reloder 15 came on the market, which is about as perfect a powder there can be for the 250gr bullets. I get 2550 fps, which is right at SAAMI max pressure.
 
The guy certainly didn't understand pressure, but neither did he report damaged guns.
"The guy" is Paco Kelly who knows alot more about performance loading and pressure etc. than most do - acuracy too. But he does take his hunting guns up to their safe upper limits and his 35 Whelen's too. Many don't (and shouldn't) because they lack the necessary knowledge and experience to push those limits safely. Paco is actually quite an experienced technician and not reckless in my opinion. He is an 24/7 experimenter however and that bugs some people when they read his stuff. He's no stranger to hot climes and its effects on pressure I would add.

However - 2800 fps for a 250gr bullet? 2600 from a 290gr? 300 fps more from an Improved version?
Yes - what I said above - and that those results were using a CAST LEAD bullets, a 250 CAST and a 280/290 CAST bullet and possibly he is refering to in experimental testing in the text comment about recoil (as his 280/290@over2600 didn't find its way into his fav load table). Lead cast is quite different often than jacketed when it comes to velocity and pressure though I personally haven't shot much cast.

I have an AcKImp 35 Whelen and routinely I make more like 175 fps less (not 300) with 250 jacketed than Paco's 250cast@2800 (with a exclamation mark he added). In fairness note also that his jacketed loads in his load table are lesser velocity (250@2530 and 275@2455).

Also in my experience it is more realistic to guess that a AI chamber modification of a 35 Whelen wil net about a 5% increase in MV "at the same pressure" I would argue which is typically more like 100 - 120fps with a 250gr pill - not 50.

My 2cents - Sorry to be so long winded.

Me bad, 35 Whelen good!!!
 
"The guy" is Paco Kelly who knows alot more about performance loading and pressure etc. than most do - acuracy too. But he does take his hunting guns up to their safe upper limits and his 35 Whelen's too. Many don't (and shouldn't) because they lack the necessary knowledge and experience to push those limits safely. Paco is actually quite an experienced technician and not reckless in my opinion. He is an 24/7 experimenter however and that bugs some people when they read his stuff. He's no stranger to hot climes and its effects on pressure I would add.

I don't care who he is.... Paco is running WAY overboard on his loads... he makes the 45 Colt do things the 454 Casull would only dream of........

It matters not whether you're NASA's finest or a hillbilly in the middle of nowhere, when you run loads up like he does... you're flirting with disaster.

Timothy Treadwell was a "self proclaimed" bear expert.....look how it ended for him....

280_ACKLEY
 
I don't care who he is.... Paco is running WAY overboard on his loads... he makes the 45 Colt do things the 454 Casull would only dream of........

It matters not whether you're NASA's finest or a hillbilly in the middle of nowhere, when you run loads up like he does... you're flirting with disaster.

Is that like exceeding the posted speed limit?
How much can I push it before I get dangerous?
Are some people better drivers than others?
It's a proven fact that speed kills.


My 35 Whelen load is 0.5gr more of RL-15, behind a Hornady 250gr SP, than Alliant recommends for a measured MV of 2600 to 2650.

Good Luck
John
 
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Is that like exceeding the posted speed limit?
How much can I push it before I get dangerous?
Are some people better drivers than others?
It's a proven fact that speed kills.


My 35 Whelen load is 0.5gr more of RL-15, behind a Hornady 250gr SP, than Alliant recommends for a measured MV of 2600 to 2650.

Good Luck
John

Nope they are not the same, driving is skill dependant... the better the driver, the faster he can drive safely.

Handloading is not.... When Shooter A stuffs a few extra grains of powder into a case, it has the same effect as when Shooter B does it...and matters not on skill level. Furthermore, there is no free velocity unless you increase barrel length.

If you can explain to me how your rifle's receiver is magically stronger than Alliant's pressure barrel, or how Paco's experience makes his loads safer, then I am all ears, as I have a 30-06 that's just begging to push 180's a few hundred feet over max... I figure 3000fps should be doable... what do the Nosler, Alliant, and Hodgon ballisticians know right?

If you exceed the book max velocity by a margin... you're running warm.... and if you exceed book max velocity with loads over book max.... then it's not worth having this discussion...cause you obviously know things the rest of us don't!

The loads may not blow up a rifle, for now.....

Goodluck

280_ACKLEY
 
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Futile no doubt, but what the heck. Wildcatters are notorious for their wild velocity claims and it is inevitably because, in the absence of load tables proven with pressure testing equipment, they just "load her up till pressure signs occur". Hardly foolproof, as the "classic" pressure signs can be very deceptive.

A solid, proven rule of thumb is that for every 4% increase in case capacity, you will see about a 1% increase in MV at the same pressure. The 35 Whelen Imp is about 6% larger in capacity than the unimproved version (not the best candidate for the modification), so you should be seeing about an extra 1.5% increase in MV. A 5% increase is clearly due to operating at higher pressures, not the effect of the small increase in capacity. Best of luck.

I get 2550 fps out of a 24" barrel running 60.0 grs of RL15 over a CCI Magnum primer. This is 0.5 grs over the published Alliant max, and I do so because I have a long throat and can seat the bullet way out at 3.420". Even then, I doubt I could get more than another 3.0 grs of powder in the case, but since my pet load is 58.0 grs it doesn't really matter. I'm confident I could get 2800 fps with a faster powder at a good 70,000 psi and likely be ok. I just don't want to.

Barrels vary, as do chambers, so too will the MV various guns will produce with the same powder charge and bullet. If you are getting much more than 2600 fps with a 35 Whelen and 2650 fps with the Improved version, you might not be unsafe, but you certainly are running over spec pressure.
 
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I seated my bullets out longer to allow for a long throat and aside from battered noses in the magazine I'm happy with this load. The throat in my 7600 is long enough that when I seat a bullet .050 off the lands it won't fit the magazine.
I expect that I'm running a bit over SAAMI spec, but not that far that this load is unsafe.
It's only 0.5gr over Alliant max and a long seated bullet to boot.
The powder and bullet companies that publish loading info are so paranoid and liability conscious that they provide for a pretty large safety margin.
I've got some factory ammo that I've been meaning to chrono for comparison. I doubt that my chrony is in error. It is my second one. One of the guys I hunt with shot my last one and then bought me a new one.
Works for me!

Good Luck
John
 
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driving is skill dependant... the better the driver, the faster he can drive safely. Handloading is not

I think it is - experience, knowledge and wisdom combine to avoid a wreck (hopefully) yet push the limits safely - hotrodding isn't for everyone.

has the same effect as when Shooter B does it

Not necessarily (and often not) especially when they have two different guns and usually MANY other variables like throating as JohnnyJ mentioned above - so reduce loads by 10% and pay attention to "classic" and very useful pressure signs. Follow their dictates .

If you can explain to me how your rifle's receiver is magically stronger than Alliant's pressure barrel, or how Paco's experience makes his loads safer, then I am all ears

No magic just working up the loads to safe max. Paco's experience doesn't mean he can flaunt physics. But it allows him and others to get a little more performance from their shooters if they aare so inclined. For example Alliant indicates that their MAX load of 59.5 behind a 250 averages 48,400 CUP which is actually below SAMMI max specs for the 35 Whelen (52,000CUP). The load they list above it averages 50,400 CUP. So uping pressure a bit won't unglue the receiver of a modern manufactured rifle. JohnnyJ's and Andy's load described above may be (???) pretty close to spec.

If you exceed the book max velocity by a margin... you're running warm.... and if you exceed book max velocity with loads over book max

The definite article "the" book - for many reasons ballisticians vary in their findings and also their loading recommendations which make it to print finally as we know.

If you exceed the book max velocity by a margin... you're running warm....

Maybe maybe not - depends on the book's load recommendation (is it consrvative or on the warm side to begin), depends on the individual gun/load combination, depends on by how much a margin.

Even if you never hot rod it, the 35 Whelen is an awesome big game round using a 250@2400MV.

Enjoyed everyone's thoughts on this.

Good luck all and, in keeping with the topic - safe shooting.
 
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