What is the most competitive Production pistol?

[HKfan]

The title says it all. What do people consider to be the most competitive pistol in IPSC Production division given the each pistol's options, features, controllability, speed and accuracy. That is, what would you consider the most desirable 'high end' Production pistol for shooters seeking the best performance?

My vote goes to the CZ SP-01, but let's hear what you think.

 

[gorky]

Would love to try a Sphinx....

EDITED: Oh, what about us nutjobs using downloaded 40s ? (Glock G22 here....)

 

[DVC1911]

Hello,

After trying a number of production firearms my first choice was the Para LDA. Great trigger and since I have shot a 1911 for so many years it just work better for me. My second choice would be the CZ SPO1.

DVC

 

[omen]

add the K100 to the list... With the taget trigger and fiber sights, it'd get my vote...

 

[HKfan]

I can't edit the Poll, but Glock 17 / 22 can be considered the same thing. I was thinking of adding the K100 but ran out of space and so stuck to the more common pistols (although the K100 is getting there).

 

[Freedom Ventures]

Who I don't think are there:
Beretta, Glock - mag design is more difficult to reload with.
Glock, HK, XD Walther - high barrel axis, Unneeded excess recoil.
Para - really long trigger reset. Huge.
CZ-75/85 - pretty much replaced by the SP-01 as long as Dave can get stock.
I only saw one K100 in action - last year, a club member bought one to shoot IPSC. It self destructed a couple of times. Maybe that one was a lemon - dunno.

I got a really close look at an SP-01 yesterday. Brought one in for a customer.

It weights 100 grams more than an STI EDGE - and it shoots 9mm, minor. This translates to minimal recoil - like shooting a bloody 22. To most shooters except the pros and really big strong guys, this is an advantage (those others find it a disadvantage as target to target speed is reduced with weight and they can overcome recoil without gun weight)

The mag opening is flared; that's a nice advantage too.

Combine that with IPSC allowing CZ-USA to produce approved competition parts, good price point and you've got the leader today.

My opinion (and that's part of why I'm bringing them in) is that Tanfoglio will very quickly match or beat CZ.

I'm pretty sure no one in Canada has shot a Tanfoglio Stock yet, and a few of us have had the pleasure to fondle them at SHOT or the worlds so we can't really make the judgement, but based on Tanfoglio's past dedication to winning championships, look out. They may have had the Stock Custom punted from the list, but they have another one in the wings waiting approval at SHOT and they have the Stock model still on the list.

Tanfoglio Stocks are heavy like the SP. Competition parts come straight from Tanfoglio - factory adjustable sights, f/o, light triggers, etc. Shaved mag openings standard. Priceline; probably a bit higher but you'll get more originally.

Both CZ and Tanfoglio offer tapered mags = easy reloads and the barrel axis is low and in line with your arm, like a 1911 giving them inherient recoil dampening over other designs.

They will offer a great arms race to watch.

(Caveat: Put a great shooter behind any gun and the gun doesn't matter much.)

 

[Musky Hunter]

thanks for the review....can't wait to see the tangfolio's.

Who I don't think are there:
Beretta, Glock - mag design is more difficult to reload with.
Glock, HK, XD Walther - high barrel axis, Unneeded excess recoil.
Para - really long trigger reset. Huge.
CZ-75/85 - pretty much replaced by the SP-01 as long as Dave can get stock.
I only saw one K100 in action - last year, a club member bought one to shoot IPSC. It self destructed a couple of times. Maybe that one was a lemon - dunno.

I got a really close look at an SP-01 yesterday. Brought one in for a customer.

It weights 100 grams more than an STI EDGE - and it shoots 9mm, minor. This translates to minimal recoil - like shooting a bloody 22. To most shooters except the pros and really big strong guys, this is an advantage (those others find it a disadvantage as target to target speed is reduced with weight and they can overcome recoil without gun weight)

The mag opening is flared; that's a nice advantage too.

Combine that with IPSC allowing CZ-USA to produce approved competition parts, good price point and you've got the leader today.

My opinion (and that's part of why I'm bringing them in) is that Tanfoglio will very quickly match or beat CZ.

I'm pretty sure no one in Canada has shot a Tanfoglio Stock yet, and a few of us have had the pleasure to fondle them at SHOT or the worlds so we can't really make the judgement, but based on Tanfoglio's past dedication to winning championships, look out. They may have had the Stock Custom punted from the list, but they have another one in the wings waiting approval at SHOT and they have the Stock model still on the list.

Tanfoglio Stocks are heavy like the SP. Competition parts come straight from Tanfoglio - factory adjustable sights, f/o, light triggers, etc. Shaved mag openings standard. Priceline; probably a bit higher but you'll get more originally.

Both CZ and Tanfoglio offer tapered mags = easy reloads and the barrel axis is low and in line with your arm, like a 1911 giving them inherient recoil dampening over other designs.

They will offer a great arms race to watch.

(Caveat: Put a great shooter behind any gun and the gun doesn't matter much.)

 

[maurice]

Combine that with IPSC allowing CZ-USA to produce approved competition parts, good price point and you've got the leader today.

(Caveat: Put a great shooter behind any gun and the gun doesn't matter much.)

Sean, can you tell me what parts are allowed in production for the CZ as competition parts?

 

[Six Star]

I can't edit the Poll, but Glock 17 / 22 can be considered the same thing. I was thinking of adding the K100 but ran out of space and so stuck to the more common pistols (although the K100 is getting there).

Just a suggestion, but you could have combined Beretta Elite/Beretta 92.

 

[HKfan]

I have shot most variants of the Tanfoglio 'Stock' family overseas, as well as European models such as the XL2 and XL4, as well as the 'HC Custom.' Mostly in 9mm and 38 Super.

I am quite impressed with them as a CZ based gun. I have CZ's and so was able to compare to the 75/85 series.

Overall, they have good triggers (DA is better than CZ triggers for sure), come with adjustable and fibre optic sights, have match grade barrels and are very nice guns to shoot. Accuracy is excellent, and as far as I know people have encountered few technical problems. Also, the chrome mags are nice.

Downside for Production is that they do not come with a decocker. Also I have yet to see a Tanfoglio with a full length dust cover.

Overall, they are great Production guns, and I understand that they are now hugely popular in Australia.

However, from my experience I would probably take a CZ 85 over a Tanfoglio due to the price of the guns. I have been considering changing from my USP to a CZ platform for a while now, and for now the SP 01 is leading the race. I would be interested to see what Tanfoglio have which rivals the SP 01.

EDIT: Yes I should have Six Star, but after thinking about it I decided that really they are different guns in terms of their features and performance, so I thought it was better to compare them than group them. However, in hind sight I was probably wrong!

 

[OkDave]

Who I don't think are there:
Beretta, Glock - mag design is more difficult to reload with.
Glock, HK, XD Walther - high barrel axis, Unneeded excess recoil.
Para - really long trigger reset. Huge.
CZ-75/85 - pretty much replaced by the SP-01 as long as Dave can get stock.
I only saw one K100 in action - last year, a club member bought one to shoot IPSC. It self destructed a couple of times. Maybe that one was a lemon - dunno.

I got a really close look at an SP-01 yesterday. Brought one in for a customer.

It weights 100 grams more than an STI EDGE - and it shoots 9mm, minor. This translates to minimal recoil - like shooting a bloody 22. To most shooters except the pros and really big strong guys, this is an advantage (those others find it a disadvantage as target to target speed is reduced with weight and they can overcome recoil without gun weight)

The mag opening is flared; that's a nice advantage too.

Combine that with IPSC allowing CZ-USA to produce approved competition parts, good price point and you've got the leader today.

My opinion (and that's part of why I'm bringing them in) is that Tanfoglio will very quickly match or beat CZ.

I don't see the glock as having a high barrel axis myself. Everything else I agree with Sean 100%. The short trigger rest on the Glock is nice but really the gun is too light and the mags were definetly not designed for speed reloads. These are major shortcomings. The guns with a high barrel axis and the lighter guns, such as the p99 have way too much flip unless you're a gorilla, so I would count them out, and yes the reset on the LDA is ridiculous.

The most competative production pistol is going to be muzzle heavy, and have a tapered mag/flared magwell with a short trigger reset. The CZ sp01 and tanfoglio fit this bill. The baby eagle probably should have been included in the poll as well.

Having said all that we all know that whatever works for you is the way to go. Hell I shoot a glock and just about every match I have been to 1st in production has been shooting glock. But that's because of the shooter not the gun.

Dave

 

[Bogman]

I don't see the glock as having a high barrel axis myself. Everything else I agree with Sean 100%. The short trigger rest on the Glock is nice but really the gun is too light and the mags were definetly not designed for speed reloads. These are major shortcomings. The guns with a high barrel axis and the lighter guns, such as the p99 have way too much flip unless you're a gorilla, so I would count them out, and yes the reset on the LDA is ridiculous.

The most competative production pistol is going to be muzzle heavy, and have a tapered mag/flared magwell with a short trigger reset. The CZ sp01 and tanfoglio fit this bill. The baby eagle probably should have been included in the poll as well.

Having said all that we all know that whatever works for you is the way to go. Hell I shoot a glock and just about every match I have been to 1st in production has been shooting glock. But that's because of the shooter not the gun.

Dave

The last line in OKDave's comment tells the WHOLE story

 

[colt45gunner]

the Desert Eagle .50 AE

 

[Freedom Ventures]

Sean, can you tell me what parts are allowed in production for the CZ as competition parts?

For sure: Competition hammer, Rear sights and f/o front sights. Grab IPSC1's gun next time - you can see them all up close and personal

 

[maurice]

thanks, next time I am down I will check it out, (summer slam)

 

[omen]

For sure: Competition hammer, Rear sights and f/o front sights. Grab IPSC1's gun next time - you can see them all up close and personal

since when can you have FO sights on a CZ?

 

[Freedom Ventures]

since when can you have FO sights on a CZ?

5-6 months at least. I bought them from CZ in Ecuador, walked over to Vince Pinto and asked them if they are production legal, (along with the comp hammer and comp rear sight) he said yes. If they aren't - Vince owes me some money.

We had a big thread about this a month or so ago...

 

[40cal]

Hmm, lets see now. That's easy.

The one in the winners' hand?

Everyone keeps telling me my gun is a real disadvantage.

I think they said that to Sevigney too.

I know there are faster guns than mine, I am trying to find out the best shooter. Now that's a game!

 

[race1911]

CZ SPO1 production approved parts

5-6 months at least. I bought them from CZ in Ecuador, walked over to Vince Pinto and asked them if they are production legal, (along with the comp hammer and comp rear sight) he said yes. If they aren't - Vince owes me some money.

We had a big thread about this a month or so ago...

Yes, they have been approved........I have the comp hammer, comp rear sight, fiber optic front and 11 lb recoil spring also ready to put onto my SPO1 (backup SPO1 going to keep in plain stock condition until I test them against each other)

 

[9x19]

...
Glock, HK, XD Walther - high barrel axis, Unneeded excess recoil.
...

Glock has the lowest barrel axis among the all handguns, only the Steyr M-Series comes close.