What is this gun??

tootall

tootall

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Any idea what this thing is?


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It belongs to a friend, and the story is that his dad brought it back after WW2 (so maybe I should post in MilSurp?).
Anyway, it is a single shot rifle with a lot of engraving, and an elaborate stock, including a carving of a dog on the fore-end.

The barrel has the name W. HELM, BUCHEBURG on it, with two small dots (umlaut) over the U

The falling block part of the action has

SYST. BUCHEL
DR. GM

stamped on it. (I'm not absolutely sure of the Buchel part. I lost my notes somewhere, if I find them and i am wrong, I'll edit)

It has a double trigger, the rear one to set, and the front as a hair trigger.
It has lost both front and rear sights somehow along the way. I am guessing that it would have had a tang folding sight at the rear.

I haven't had a chance to do a chamber cast, or properly measure the bore, but I suspect it is 8mm of some type, as a .308 fit easily in the muzzle.

Any ideas?

TIA

***EDIT*** I got the Buchel part right, but the other name should be W. HELD, not Helm.
 
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system Buchel

System Buchel refers to the action type sometimes also the manufacturer, that is a fine old shuetzen rifle, probably chambered for the 8.15x46r, a common European target cartridge, most rifles of this kind that you run into are System Adyt, produced by different makers. Rear sights were usually prec. diopter type for target shooting. Brass is still avail. from places like Buffalo arms, though you should have a chamber cast made to confirm chambering. Rifle is actually quite valuable as I have heard they fetch 1.5 to 2k!
 
it looks like a

I do believe it is a Shutzen rifle, almost looks like a bit of a Martini action with a bit of a Ballard action, anyway its a gem thats for sure
 
I second guessed you guys and figured it a Stevens Pope at first but the receiver is rounded to much to be one, the Stevens Schuetzen's were squared off at the back of the frame, must be a European manufacture for sure.

My bad.
 
In the large picture of the receiver in the upper right hand corner there are visible a German Definitive proof mark and a Repair proof (crown over R) of the type used between 1891 and 1939. The repair proof is not necessarily because the gun was broken, but perhaps because major modifications were made to it.

Sharptail
 
Tootall,

John Mathieson at Reliable Gun & Tackle in Vancouver has a similar rifle. Might be worth showing it to him next time you're in town.

:) Stuart
 
Pivotin,fallin', or rollin', get it straight

Ballards, Stevens-Pope, Highwalls, Sharps,Rem-Hepburns,and most old U.S. Single shots are falling blocks w/exposed hammer(except the Borchardt), Remington 1s and 1 1/2s are Rolling Blocks, Martinis and the rifle in question are pivoting or swinging block actions usually employing a striker instead of an exposed hammer, for quicker lock time. In the 1800's the Borchardt(Sharps 1878) helped put the final nail in the Sharps Co. coffin.....Without an exposed hammer how could shooters of the day tell if the gun was loaded or cocked? They had always just to look at the hammer....our continental cousins who produced this fine rifle weren't as enamored with the hammer!!
 
Hey, thanks for all the info, guys!
I knew I could count on the mighty CGN to help out.;)
I sort of suspected that SYST BUCHEL meant a Buchel action type, but beyond that, didn't have much to go on.
Thanks Ben Hunchak for the bit about Pivoting or swinging blocks.
Yes TFunfer, the barrel is fluted.
Sharptail, good spot on the proof and repair marks.
I sort of doubt my friend will do much shooting with it, more of a family momento. I would warm it up, if it was mine!
Best comment goes to Noel.

Noel said:
No doubt, it looks like Homer Simpson's head!
Click to expand...
 
Buchel, Ernst Freidrich, was a master gunsmith in Thuringia, Germany. The company was in existence from before 1887 to WW2. They made guns under the Luna brand at times, and Buchel was listed in Germany as a Master Gunsmith. The specialised in a series of target rifles and pistols.
A search on yahoo.de should give you more info, or you could go to one of the various German gun sites.
 
I am sorry as I am of no help here.

But I just wanted to comment on your piece.. What a beautiful gun. They sure don't make them like they used too huh? I am refering to the craftsmanship. The funny thing is, Back a few year's ago my good friend was friend's with this older gentleman that owned a few oldies such as your's and his one gun looked alot like your's, even the forestock. Unfortunately he is dead and gone to heaven now or else I would surely call him up and look into it for you.
Regardless, you have a nice piece there. Take good care of her. She's a beaut!
 
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