What is this shotgun or ?

[Dodgeman360]

I have this gun looks like a shotgun but 410 does not fit to tight .I loads by twisting the forearm and twist back to close and them pull the knob on right side back to caulk the gun. It is center fire not rim,barell is 27 in long .Only marking is brevete sgdg which I believe is French proofing mark and 50 and 10.6 .Any thoughts or info would be appreciated , thanks Bob.

 

[Grouse Man]

I'm guessing 10.6 is 10.6mm, describing the bore (0.417").

That's sure a unique gun.

 

[3macs1]

Are you sure the stock has not been cut?? I have seen this done for display or training purposes years ago
The Brevete S.G.D.G. just means

"Breveté sans garantie de gouvernement"


"Patented - without the guarantee of the government"

No other marks on it ???

 

[Dodgeman360]

No stock not been cut, it fits right oal is 43 in and 14 in from butt to trigger .the 2 other marks are French proof marks the f with crown and the 2 lightning bolts. I have taken down and no other marking of any sort . What does it shoot ? not rimfire but 410 will not fit ,too tight.

Are you sure the stock has not been cut?? I have seen this done for display or training purposes years ago
The Brevete S.G.D.G. just means

"Breveté sans garantie de gouvernement"


"Patented - without the guarantee of the government"

No other marks on it ???

 

[gunsaholic]

What do you mean by "not too tight? Is it the main body of the shell not tight in the chamber or is the rim of the brass not tight where it seats at the chamber ring or throat?

With a lot of gauges, there is a bit of leeway allowed in bore dimensions. Also, a shell is not always "tight" in the chamber. A shell that is quite tight before firing will often have trouble ejecting. Below is a reference to 10.6 mm markings.
But to clarify--is it a shotgun or does it have rifling?

3 - France, in 1810, try to get away from the british system and they managed to keep alive two systems: one was similar to the British (except the french pound was different) and determined gauges fairly similar in diameter to the british system;
the other, called the bore system, was similar, but used the kilogram (for example a 32 bore was very similar to a 12 gauge).
In 1868, they killed the bore system and tried to rationalize the dimensions. They still based the determination of the gauge on the number of lead balls made with a french pound, but they decided to adjust the diameters to have 0.2mm steps between gauges.
This is probably were the .410 was born (even though was not called so; officially it was called a 12mm):
in fact, the french proof house decided that all the guns smaller than 10.6mm (roughly .410") had to be tested for pressure in a different way than the bigger ones. So, .410 became the divider between serious guns and play things.

 

[rembolt]

Going to assume its smooth bore . could it be designed to use a brass cartridge loaded with shot rather than the modern 410 hull ? what does the chamber profile look like ie short , long , steep or shallow forcing cone .

 

[Dodgeman360]

sorry I should of had a comma there.A 410 hull will not go in the chamber as the hull is too fat in diameter.Yes it is a smoothbore .maybe a brass hull would be a little smaller or less resistant.

 

[rembolt]

My line of thinking is that the gun is of a small French gunmaker and possibly designed around the use of a French military cartridge .

 

[3macs1]

What do you mean by "not too tight? Is it the main body of the shell not tight in the chamber or is the rim of the brass not tight where it seats at the chamber ring or throat?

With a lot of gauges, there is a bit of leeway allowed in bore dimensions. Also, a shell is not always "tight" in the chamber. A shell that is quite tight before firing will often have trouble ejecting. Below is a reference to 10.6 mm markings.
But to clarify--is it a shotgun or does it have rifling?

3 - France, in 1810, try to get away from the british system and they managed to keep alive two systems: one was similar to the British (except the french pound was different) and determined gauges fairly similar in diameter to the british system;
the other, called the bore system, was similar, but used the kilogram (for example a 32 bore was very similar to a 12 gauge).
In 1868, they killed the bore system and tried to rationalize the dimensions. They still based the determination of the gauge on the number of lead balls made with a french pound, but they decided to adjust the diameters to have 0.2mm steps between gauges.
This is probably were the .410 was born (even though was not called so; officially it was called a 12mm):
in fact, the french proof house decided that all the guns smaller than 10.6mm (roughly .410") had to be tested for pressure in a different way than the bigger ones. So, .410 became the divider between serious guns and play things.

Agree 10.6mm was the 410 then and I am guessing 50mm chamber length on this gun and for some reason an old Balle Blondeau slug gun keeps coming to mind. The one perhaps they say the french used to disable vehicles back in war time. God knows
Cheers

 

[VLT79]

I'd be willing to bet a 44-40 cartridge will chamber and if it does the gun was like designed before the .410 came to be. Back in the day there was 44-40 shotshells, sometimes known as G.G. or Game Getter. There was also "44 extra long" shotshells.

Here's a couple links with a little more info on the various 44-40 specialty loads. http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/team-44-40/151610-game-getter-ball-shot.html
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=137621&page=2

 

[3macs1]

I'd be willing to bet a 44-40 cartridge will chamber and if it does the gun was like designed before the .410 came to be. Back in the day there was 44-40 shotshells, sometimes known as G.G. or Game Getter. There was also "44 extra long" shotshells.

Here's a couple links with a little more info on the various 44-40 specialty loads. http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/team-44-40/151610-game-getter-ball-shot.html
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=137621&page=2

Yep it could be a 44-40. I had one that looked like this but it had a hex barrel and didnot seperate like this one does
To me is it not for hunting ot target shooting and is made to pack and for a special purpose only which is why I thought it may be for the French military since they used special slug guns in ww2
Cheers

 

[gunsaholic]

It could be 44-40 but strange that a .410 won't go in. 10.6 mm that is marked on the gun is .417 which is larger than .410.

 

[buzzmagoo]

Do a chamber cast of the chamber will give you a visual and will be easier to compare to different shells and to to measure best of luck.

 

[snoopycda]

It could be 44-40 but strange that a .410 won't go in. 10.6 mm that is marked on the gun is .417 which is larger than .410.

410 is closer to 45 caliber on the outside dimensions.

 

[gunsaholic]

410 is closer to 45 caliber on the outside dimensions.

Yes, that's true. But at one time the .410 was marked as .410 12 meaning the chamber is actually 12 mm. I think the .410, or in this case the 10.6 marking on this gun would be referring to the bore size as well not chamber. I just measured a .410 shell at the brass and I got 11.72 mm. If the 10.6 marking is the bore size and the .410 chamber is actually supposed to be 12 mm, then it should fit. But evidently it doesn't. I think as mentioned, a chamber cast or measurement needs to be done to determine the chamber size for sure. I wouldn't think this gun is old enough to require the older 44 shells but who knows. The French did some unconventional things when it comes to firearms.