What is this Winchester worth?

RRCo.

RRCo.

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This fine old rifle was made in 1895 serial number in the 299XX range. 26" barrel, full length mag. Bluing I would conservatively rate at 85%. The bore has excellent rifling, but is frosty overall. The rifling is excellent, square and sharp even at the chamber throat. Can't have had much use this one. One little patch of pitting on the mag and barrel where it rested against something for a while. It is in untouched condition; by that I mean no one has tried to clean it up or "improve" it.

What say you Winchester experts?

More photos here: http://imageshack.us/g/1/9898153/
 
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299xx or 299###x ?

If its 299xx you have a model build in 1895. That is rare and worth a few grand.

299###x however .. 1966. Worth about $400

Your action from the side screws looks like a post 64. Still nice rifle man!
 
Tikka6xc said:
299xx or 299###x ?

If its 299xx you have a model build in 1895. That is rare and worth a few grand.

299###x however .. 1966. Worth about $400

Your action from the side screws looks like a post 64. Still nice rifle man!
Click to expand...

Serial number is five digits, thanks.

I assume this is an importable Curio & Relic under US law, being made in 1895?
 
That serial # is the actual # in order that rifle was made. So at 29,9xx that's pretty neat. Over 7,000,000 were sold until winchester closed the doors in 2006 I believe. That's one old rifle with a history u have.


Do you own the gun or are you buying it?

There are gun importers but it cost a few good $. As well I hope you do more research of value than just asking here. I'm a guy who likes winchesters and owns a 94 but on the same hand I also have a life. I'm not a historian.
 
I just looked in to this a bit more. What's ur full serial #?

Seeing as the design for the 94 was in 1894 but production did not start till 95 I was thinking that's a high #. They would half to ground up build 3 rifles an hour everyday for a year.

Your rifle is more around 1898. Still could be worth a good chunk. Like 9 or 10 thousand $

E-mail winchester with the full # for the most accurate to the month date.
 
Production started in Oct of 94 and yours was built mid to late mid 95 by my guess, at the end of 95 they were at about 44,###.
 
Winchester`s own records - as most other material out there - was based on the research of George Madis. For all the good info he did provide, much of his information on dates of production for the various models is off the mark, some by as much as a few years. This is the especially the case with the Model 1894. For example, 9.3 Mauser noted that according to Winchester`s own numbers, 29,### was manufactured in 1895. I can tell you that I have an 1894 with serial number 21,639, and the serial number was stamped on the receiver of my rifle on March 31, 1897. It was in the warehouse and shipped three months later. This is directly from the Cody Museum. The 1894 the OP is discussing most certainly was manufactured after this point. Likely late 1897, early 1898. I can get a better idea when I get home and look at my Red Book of Winchester Values which includes Polishing Room Records info from the Cody Museum. The PRRs give the dates the serial numbers were stamped on receivers. For the OP, whether one chooses the current numbers out there or Polishing Room Record info, the gun will still be considered antique in the US at is was manufactured before the end of 1898.

The work of Bert Hartman was noted above. Bert has worked tirelessly for years researching the records at the Cody Museum. Here is some info he recently put together and posted in the Gunbroker Forum. It is interesting.

A bored mind is a terrible thing to waste, so having some free time to kill, I finally put together a fact sheet on the true production ratios and the verified DOMs for the Winchester Model 1894/94.

As many of you will undoubtedly note, the figures I have compiled below vary significantly from the numbers published by George Madis in his tomes "The Winchester Book" and "The Winchester Handbook". All of my statistical numbers were derived from a detailed survey (conducted by the Cody Firearms Museum) of the first 353,999 serial number records, and from the Polishing Room Serialization Record Books (held by the Cody Firearms Museum).

Unfortunately for all of the many collectors and interested people, all of the remaining pre-64 factory warehouse records (serial numbers 354,000 - 2,600,000+ were destroyed in a fire in the late 1950s or early 1960s. Undoubtedly, all of the caliber, and the Rifle versus Carbine production number ratios would change drastically if the records were available for serial numbers 354,000 - 2,600,298. The PolishingRoom Serialization Record Books (PRSRBs) which contain nothing more than just the serial number, fortunately survive up to serial number 1,352,066, which was manufactured on December 29th, 1945.

For all of the many people who collect the Model 1894/94, this information should be both very enlightening and useful, and I highly encourage everyone to save a copy of it.

Production ratios for the first 353,999 Model 1894s made:

4:5 (78.19%) were Rifles (276,780)
1:5 (21.20%) were Saddle Ring Carbines (75,075)

1:2 (45.92%) was a 30 W.C.F. (162,568)
1:5 (22.80%) was a 38-55 (80,734)
1:9 (11.31%) was a 32-40 (40,023)
1:9 (10.45%) was a 25-35 W.C.F. (36,999)
1:11 (8.77%) was a 32 W.S. (31,050)

1:13 (7.60%) were Take Down Rifles (26,934)

9:10 (91.6%) had a full length magazine (324,270)
1:13 (7.51%) had a 1/2 magazine (26,579)
1:688 (0.15%) had a 2/3 magazine (515)
1:770 (0.13%) had a 3/4 magazine (459)
Just (1) gun had a 7/8 magazine

1:20 (5.02%) had a shotgun butt (17,768)
1:584 (0.17%) carbines had rifle butt plates (606)
1:1655 (0.06%) had a Swiss butt plate (209 rifles, 5 carbines)
1:3308 (0.03%) rifles had carbine butt plates (107)

1:26 (3.88%) rifles had pistol grip stocks (13,703)
1:34 (2.97% had checkered stocks (10,512)
1:718 (0.14%) carbines had pistol grip stocks (493)
1:4023 (0.025%) had carved stocks (81 rifles, 7 carbines)
1:9567 (0.01%) had a cheek piece (37)

1:69 (1.46%) had a double-set trigger (5,158)

1:3026 (0.033%) were nickel plated (117)
1:3978 (0.025%) were silver or gold plated (89)

1:668 (0.15%) were inscribed (530)
1:998 (0.10%) were engraved (355)
Just (1) gun had a matted receiver (on the frame ring)

1:1744 (0.057%) had a matted barrel (200 rifles, 3 carbines)
1:3000 (0.033%) rifles had interchangeable barrels (TD) (118)

1:2255 (0.044%) had a case hardened receiver (155 rifles, 2 carbines)

1:88500 (0.0011% had a factory installed scope (4)
Just (1) rifle had a factory installed Maxim silencer (Teddy Roosevelt’s)

(2067) records are blank
(184) were sold as receivers only

Serial number 53941 is the last “Antique” number based on the information in the Polishing Room records.

For the years 1894 through 1945, the DOMs published by George Madis (and copied/republished by nearly every other reference book or internet website) do not agree with the original surviving factory records (the factory warehouse ledgers and the PRSRB records), and they are inaccurate by nearly four years in the 1896 - 1914 timeframe.

Winchester began producing Model 94s at an accelerated pace starting in 1935. By the end of the year 1935, Madis' published DOM list and the PRSRB records only differ by just (17) serial numbers (1099625 versus 1099608), but they rapidly begin to diverge in the ensuing years.

Winchester's production of the Model 94 averaged about 35,000 units per year for the next (7) years (1936-1942 inclusive), and once again, Madis’ published numbers diverge from the PRSRB records. The PRSRB records end at serial number 1,352,066, which is listed as the last Model 94 serial number recorded on December 29th of 1945.

Following WW II, Winchester averaged approximately 100,000 Model 94s per year from 1946 - 1953, then about 55,000 per year through 1963. The numbers I have listed below are estimates that are based on my research survey, and they should not be relied upon to determine an "exact" DOM.

1946 ended at circa serial number 1,411,000
1947 ended at circa serial number 1,470,000
1948 ended at circa serial number 1,560,000
1949 ended at circa serial number 1,660,000
1950 ended at circa serial number 1,760,000
1951 ended at circa serial number 1,875,000
1952 ended at circa serial number 1,960,000
1953 ended at circa serial number 2,045,000
1954 ended at circa serial number 2,100,500
1955 ended at circa serial number 2,156,000
1956 ended at circa serial number 2,211,500
1957 ended at circa serial number 2,267,000
1958 ended at circa serial number 2,322,500
1959 ended at circa serial number 2,388,000
1960 ended at circa serial number 2,453,500
1961 ended at circa serial number 2,510,000
1962 ended at circa serial number 2,564,500
1963 ended at circa serial number 2,600,300

Winchester changed the designation from "Model 1894" to "Model 94" very shortly after a "Change in Manufacture Order" was issued by Frank F. Burton on February 2nd, 1919.

The following list contains verified Model 1894 dates based on the factory warehouse ledgers (held by the Cody Firearms Museum). The actual DOMs listed in the PRSRB will typically precede the "received in warehouse" date by an average of 4-weeks.:

EDIT: I recently added a very significant number of new serial numbers to this list. It should now very clearly show the progression of verified dates of manufacture. I do not plan to add any additional new serial numbers to the list on this post. That said, I am still updating my personal database survey with additional verified numbers. If anyone would like to contribute to the survey, please send me a PM.

Serial*** Received Date
22 - 10-20-1894
61 - 11-27-1894
90 - 12-7-1894
136 - 11-1-1894 (1st Takedown received)
137 - 11-14-1894
139 - 11-14-1894
165 - 12-8-1894
170 - 11-2-1894
204 - 12-1-1894
257 - 11-13-1894
266 - 11-12-1894
309 - 11-6-1894
338 - 1-5-1895
563 - 11-21-1894
603 - 11-22-1894
604 - 11-23-1894
624 - 12-10-1894
679 - 11-24-1894
734 - 2-2-1895
814 - 12-8-1894
832 - 2-16-1895
988 - 12-10-1894
1296 - 12-26-1894
1368 - 12-29-1894
1673 - 2-4-1895
1835 - 3-5-1895 (1st engraved)
2465 - 8-12-1895
3314 - 5-29-1895 (1st 30 W.C.F.)
3559 - 4-26-1895
4176 - 4-18-1895
4598 - 6-10-1895
4762 - 6-29-1895
5014 - 7-18-1895 (1st 25-35 W.C.F.)
5044 - 8-1-1895
5047 - 9-6-1895
5579 - 9-13-1895
5860 - 8-29-1895
6506 - 10-3-1895
7566 - 10-17-1895
11020 - 12-10-1895
12356 - 3-26-1896
12695 - 11-4-1896
12962 - 7-30-1896
12970 - 5-21-1897
13135 - 4-14-1896
14311 - 7-28-1896
15315 - 6-29-1896
15332 - 8-7-1896
15488 - 10-9-1896
16259 - 10-31-1896
16400 - 10-26-1896
16582 - 10-3-1896
17819 - 3-11-1897
17862 - 12-16-1896
20041 - 3-11-1897
20492 - 8-30-1901
22905 - 6-5-1897
25762 - 10-13-1897
26639 - 10-1-1897
26831 - 9-10-1897
27056 - 10-26-1897
27122 - 10-27-1897
27158 - 3-4-1902 (1st 32 W.S.)
28202 - 10-25-1897
32192 - 3-24-1898 (Factory engraved)
32246 - 1-27-1898
35925 - 12-9-1899
38802 - 4-20-1898
39555 - 7-20-1898
46056 - 8-13-1898
46821 - 8-30-1898
46831 - 9-19-1898
46882 - 12-22-1900
47142 - 9-15-1898
47176 - 9-23-1898
47431 - 9-29-1898
47856 - 10-20-1898
48116 - 10-22-1898
48468 - 10-15-1898
48466 - 10-15-1898
49796 - 12-28-1898
49809 - 11-10-1898
49980 - 12-19-1898
50840 - 9-13-1899
50909 - 11-17-1898
***********
54160 - 9-8-1899
59367 - 5-23-1899
59668 - 5-22-1899
60584 - 4-4-1899
60879 - 4-17-1899
61710 - 5-8-1899
62652 - 5-12-1899
63274 - 8-3-1899
64043 - 8-10-1899
64406 - 8-19-1899
64872 - 9-1-1899
65056 - 10-18-1899
66200 - 8-25-1899
67776 - 9-26-1899
67952 - 9-19-1899
69622 - 10-10-1899
70126 - 10-19-1899
70788 - 10-20-1899
71479 - 11-4-1899
71560 - 11-1-1899
73342 - 7-3-1900
74059 - 11-24-1899
77924 - 3-29-1900
78333 - 9-12-1900
79036 - 1-8-1900
84801 - 3-24-1900
85249 - 8-9-1900
85741 - 4-24-1900
85816 - 6-20-1900
85930 - 7-7-1900
86623 - 7-24-1900
87767 - 9-1-1900
88624 - 7-2-1900
89924 - 12-28-1900
96641 - 1-8-1901
96800 - 1-9-1901
97581 - 4-25-1901
97869 - 11-2-1900
98829 - 3-1-1901
99126 - 12-7-1900
100621 - 8-3-1901
100955 - 2-4-1901
100994 - 3-11-1901
106970 - 2-25-1901
107731 - 10-5-1901
109921 - 5-25-1901
108346 - 6-1-1901
111524 - 4-2-1901
112916 - 4-24-1901
113997 - 5-18-1901
115623 - 10-22-1901
116570 - 7-29-1901
118446 - 8-6-1901
118828 - 10-5-1901
119046 - 8-2-1901 (18-inch Trapper Carbine)
119244 - 9-3-1901
119959 - 2-5-1902
120238 - 8-20-1901
122029 - 9-27-1901
122466 - 10-24-1901
124883 - 10-17-1901
125858 - 10-7-1901
128249 - 3-10-1904
128693 - 3-11-1902
131170 - 11-15-1901
131497 - 11-19-1901
136647 - 1-31-1902
139319 - 12-13-1902
139676 - 3-14-1902
142899 - 5-10-1902
145358 - 7-29-1902
145643 - 7-21-1902
146235 - 9-2-1902
150670 - 8-29-1902
152631 - 10-6-1902
154488 - 10-16-1902
154905 - 9-17-1902
155354 - 10-25-1902
156875 - 10-17-1902
164526 - 12-16-1902
165264 - 12-11-1902
167894 - 2-24-1903
168355 - 5-29-1903
168865 - 2-10-1903
176427 - 5-23-1903
176792 - 4-17-1903
177990 - 5-1-1903
180787 - 6-12-1903
182665 - 7-20-1903
186261 - 7-24-1903
187561 - 8-17-1903
189302 - 11-3-1903
190079 - 8-28-1903
199578 - 12-5-1903
203012 - 1-11-1904
203606 - 1-9-1904
203617 - 12-30-1903
206055 - 3-4-1904
206175 - 2-1-1904
216183 - 6-21-1904
222901 - 3-30-1905
225852 - 7-2-1904
226254 - 12-19-1908
227057 - 7-15-1904
235840 - 9-20-1904
239193 - 10-27-1904
240596 - 5-9-1905
244142 - 8-23-1905
249157 - 12-24-1904
249665 - 5-8-1905
250113 - 2-5-1906
256862 - 4-28-1905
257652 - 4-11-1905
259195 - 4-22-1905
260056 - 7-15-1905
261228 - 9-5-1905
261408 - 8-29-1905
265717 - 8-12-1905
274317 - 8-24-1905
274648 - 3-21-1906
275004 - 10-7-1905
276723 - 9-25-1905
277476 - 10-25-1905
280853 - 10-22-1906
282746 - 4-25-1906
288514 - 1-30-1906
299679 - 4-2-1906
301737 - 4-1-1907
302051 - 9-26-1906
303891 - 5-18-1906
304600 - 7-21-1906
309409 - 3-13-1908
311943 - 8-11-1906
311946 - 8-31-1906
313571 - 9-14-1905
314210 - 8-30-1906
314870 - 9-11-1906
318034 - 10-6-1906
324134 - 1-9-1907
324386 - 11-24-1906
324596 - 1-8-1907
325531 - 5-20-1907
326869 - 8-20-1907
327349 - 12-12-1906
330989 - 1-5-1907
335602 - 2-2-1907
336447 - 3-16-1907
337827 - 2-26-1907
340492 - 3-7-1907
353136 - 6-20-1907
353512 - 11-4-1907

Significant serial numbers;

1,000,000 was engraved and presented to President Calvin Coolidge in 1927
1,500,000 was presented to President Harry S. Truman on May 8th, 1948
2,000,000 was presented to President Dwight Eisenhower in 1953
2,500,000 was assembled in 1961
3,000,000 was assembled in 1970

All told, by January of the year 1980, 5,200,000 Model 1894/94 Rifles, Carbines, and Commemoratives had been manufactured at Winchester’s New Haven factory.

As I was going through some of the recently posted questions on the forum, I realized that I had neglected to address the dates and serial numbers for the introduction of the various calibers... the following list should help rectify that.

edit: I received a request concerning when and what the first Saddle Ring Carbine (SRC) was, so I have added this new information;

38-55 Rifle - serial number 24, 10-22-1894
38-55 Carbine - serial number 46, 3-36-1895 (by serial number order)
38-55 Carbine - serial number 471, 11-1-1894 (by date order)

32-40 Rifle - serial number 692, 12-14-1894
32-40 Carbine - serial number 1409, 1-18-1895

30 W.C.F. Rifle - serial number 3314, 5-29-1895
30 W.C.F. Carbine - serial number 4787, 6-24-1895

25-35 W.C.F. Rifle - serial number 5014, 7-18-1895
25-35 W.C.F. Carbine - serial number 6506, 10-1-1895

32 W.S. Rifle - serial number 107731, 10-5-1901
32 W.S. Carbine - serial number 22967, 8-27-1902 (by serial number order)
32 W.S. Carbine - serial number 142889, 5-10-1902 (by date order)

The above information should allow anyone with a letterable Model 1894 (serial 1 - 353999) to very closely estimate the DOM. For those who are interested in adding your Model 1894 to my database, please get in touch with me at Win1885@msn.com

Hope this has been of interest.

Matt
 
Tikka6xc said:
299xx or 299###x ?

If its 299xx you have a model build in 1895. That is rare and worth a few grand.

299###x however .. 1966. Worth about $400

Your action from the side screws looks like a post 64. Still nice rifle man!
Click to expand...

You have your screws mixed up.
If they are stacked, this would be a correct comment.
 
No prob. I don`t know if Winchester or others will amend their information or not. The info they are using has been around a long time, and is also what the BATF uses, etc It is a bit of a can of worms. There is always lots of discussion on this subject on the WACA forum (Google WinchesterCollector) for anyone interested in more details.
Cheers,
Matt
 
Well Matt definitely deserves a generous thanks and credit, more than just those of us that have posted in this thread learned something great. It caused me to do a lot of reading, I love reading and researching and now I won't be spewing false info provided by the makers themselves, lol

My problem is I like to read about so many things I sometimes do not dig deep enough.
 
Tikka6xc said:
I just looked in to this a bit more. What's ur full serial #?

Seeing as the design for the 94 was in 1894 but production did not start till 95 I was thinking that's a high #. They would half to ground up build 3 rifles an hour everyday for a year.

Your rifle is more around 1898. Still could be worth a good chunk. Like 9 or 10 thousand $

E-mail winchester with the full # for the most accurate to the month date.
Click to expand...

Well this statement caught my attention. I have two model 1894's each with 4 digit serial numbers. One is 30xx and the other a 50 xx. Both in 38-55. I have had several " collectors" tell me they were worth about $1200 tops but 9-10 grand WOW.
 
Ha! I have a low 5 digit long octagon 25-35, very very well used though, a great uncle carried it from youth til his passing, 80 some years he used that rifle almost year round. No damage, no rust, just well worn.
 
Lol. Well, it should get your attention b/c it is WAY off (no offence Tikka6xc:) For that gun to be worth that much money is would have to be a real nice deluxe Take down model in 38-55! Or brand new in a box, and even then.
I hate posting values on guns b/c it is so objective. What it all comes down to is rarity and condition. Condition, condition, condition. This rifle is not a rare rifle. It is a standard configuration (that is round 26" barrel with full magazine) in the most common caliber, 30WCF. It does however have a special order Lyman 34 3 Leaf Express rear sight which is nice and it does have antique status going for it South of the border, but that does not seem to mean as much up here. The gun is in really nice shape, but the Photobucket photos do show the receiver does have a fair amount of wear in places and there is some oil staining in the wood. Certainly a very nice early 1894, but not a $9,000 rifle. More likely somewhere in the $2,000 range, give or take. That is just from what I see and again, evaluating and pricing is subjective and all comes down to what someone is willing to pay for it. I still find it hard to put prices on some of these guns, but know more what I am comfortable paying for one. In the end, if you are buying, that's what it comes down to I guess, what you feel comfortable paying for a gun. It is a very nice 1894. Just not a $10,000 1894.
As for the other folks, please don't thank me. It is hard to keep up with all the new info out there these days, so I like I share and help when I can.
Matt
 
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