What scope, and what to shoot at?

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K1LLswitch

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Hey everyone,

I'm going to be buying my first gun soon (probably after my PAL course on Sun, though I'll have to leave it at the range until I can get my official license in who knows how long). That being said, I could use some help picking out a scope.

I've decided on a 700P - I love the look and feel and from what everyone says, it's seems to be a great gun to start with plus a lot of potential for upgrading in the future. I'm torn between .223 and .308 - I would prefer to start on the cheaper .223 (and a little less punishing I hear to shoot lots of), but the .308 seems like the standard I would want to own eventually. Also the .308 is in stock vs. the .223 isn't and I haven't seen a 700p in one yet. Regardless....

what type of scope do I need? I don't want to cheap out and get something crappy, but I'm not worthy of a nightforce or the like yet. Something like a Leupold maybe?

Mostly, my problem is that I have no idea what I want in terms of the random numbers that fall after it. I'm guessing they are they distance adjustments / zoom, but I don't really know what distance I should be shooting as a noob let alone what zoom range to go for.

Next off, what to shoot. My family has a quarter section of farm land and forest not too far from town, so I was hoping to set-up some targets down in the field and shoot from up on the hill where the house is (so that bullets will terminate in the ground vs. going into unknown areas). But what do I shoot at?

Thanks in advance for the help!

K1LLswitch
 
The "random numbers" you refer to are the scopes zoom capabilities and objective (front) lens size.

A 6-25X50 has a zoom of 6X to 25X with a 50mm Objective Lens
A 10X45 would be a fixed 10X (No Zoom) with a 45mm Objective

How far you want shoot and your budget will help determine which scope would best suit your needs.

If you have a no holds barred budget then the sky is the limit. If you have a $600 budget then things change.

When it comes to scopes, buy the best you can afford. If you can afford the best it will last you a lifetime.
If you buy cheap, you will buy often.

As for what to shoot, do a google search for "Free Targets" there are thousands of good targets to print out. Prop up a sheet of plywood with some 2X4's, staple your targets to it and shoot away.
 
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I would probably want to spend no more than $1500, though even that is not fixed if the perfect scope was a little more.

I can't even tell you how far 800m is to tell if I have any desire to shoot that far, but what "x factor" would I need for that vs. for 300m?
 
Minimum is typically 3X for every 100 yards, so for 300 a minimum would be 9-10 power. Get as much as you can possibly afford, You can always dial back a high powered scope, but you can't create more magnification than the scope has.

Most competitive target shooters that use scopes would use 20X as a minimum. I would suggect the 8.5-25X50 Leupold if you can afford it.
 
Leupold is a nice scope but if your up in the mark 4 range, a nightforce isn't that much more. I am guessing that you are wanting to spend no more than 1500 for the whole package. I would look into the falcon menace scopes. They are in the 400-500 dollar range, durable and fairly clear optics for the money. That way your 700p which will be about 1100ish will put you around that mark. A little more money for bases and rings, I would say you could possible get in for 1700 ish with that specific rifle. If you need to got down a little in price, the remington sps tactical or vaarmints are the next best thing. The stocks aren't great but they can be upgraded later when you have a little more coin to throw around. I haven't seen a whole lot of .223's around but alberta tactical and wholesale both have some 308's. Back to th scope, falcon makes a 4-14x44 ffp(reticle changes size as you change magnification, but measurements on the reticle always stay the same) or a 4.5-18x56 scope.
 
You can get a Remington 5R .308 for $1000 off the EE. Save $100 plus the taxes. Get a $40 trigger job to lower the weight and put the savings towards the scope. If you're set on the tactical black then the 700P or the LTR are the way to go. The LTR is the handiest with 20" barrel, while the 5R has a 24" barrel and the 700P has the 26" barrel. The 700P and LTR come in .223 as well. While the .223 is nice to shoot and cheaper I have to confess I enjoy shooting .308 more than the .223. But lets be realistic you'll want both :) eventually.

As for scopes. Leupold is a good bet. Another option is the 6.5-20x 50mm Zeiss Conquest with the 1000 yard Rapid Z reticle if you get a .308. The varmint reticle for .223. I prefer them over the Leupold although I do like Leupold a lot. Plus they are cheaper than the Leupold.

Otherwise I'd look at getting a Falcon. Probably the 4.5-18x Illuminated reticle for under $500. I have the 4-14x ffp Falcon and they are very good (I actually have them on my semi auto rimfires). However I prefer more magnification for target or varmint shooting with centerfire ranges.
 
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Have you tried the Savage lam stocks? I can strongly recommend the 12BVSS or low profile in 223. The stocks feel great and you are saving yourself quite a bit of coin. Way better trigger too which you can adjust yourself.

Do shoot the 223 in a 9 twist barrel. With the 75gr Amax, you can shoot out to a mile and the ballistics mimic the 308. Way cheaper to shoot too. Recoil is not your friend so a light kicker will allow you to improve your shooting ALOT faster.

If you really must have a 308 down the road, this savage will sell in a heart beat if priced properly. You could always swap barrel and bolt head then shoot it in whatever cartridge you want.

For a scope, the bushnell Elite 4200 is the best bang for quality optics. I use and compete with the 6X24 with mildots. Optics and mechanicals are awesome. A bit light on the adj but properly shimmed you can get to 1000yds no problem.

For a few more dollars, you can get the tactical version. More elevation but a smidge less resolution at 24X. Great working scope.

If on a tighter budget, the Elite 3200 10X is a superb scope. Other scopes in this line work well too but will give up optical resolution vs the 4200. In the same ballpark as the Falcons.

Nikon Buckmaster are great scopes for the money. Nikon Monarchs are great too for a bit more money but optics are very nice.

Leupolds are very nice products but a bit pricey. There are many moderate grade scopes to choose from with interesting reticles. Many consider this brand the benchmark that others are compared to.

Whatever rifle you get, have it bedded. There isn't a factory stock that has decent inletting. Even the Alum chassis stocks need bedding. Some of these have the worse bedding in the industry.

Get out there and shoot. I am sure you will have lots of fun. Also, add reloading gear as part of your budget.

Jerry
 
I have to admit I saw a few of the new Savage rifles including the laminate stocked rifle in 6BR. Pretty nice. A good move by Savage.
 
K1LLswitch,
Buy the .223 rem., Buy a used 4x24x40/50 bushnell 4200, spend a year shooting at 100 yds and learn to bull a trigger properly.
During this year get set up and learn to reload properly. If you ever plan to get good enough to shoot matches you,ll find like I believe that half of the matches are won in the basement first.

M.
 
Like Ice said.

What to shoot at? The Liberals put up lots of target holders. Did you pick any up? They have two wooden sticks to pound into the ground and a nice sheet of plastic to staple targets to.

Some will tell you the NDP target frame is better, but don't get lead astray. But for sure, the blue ones are no good. I always leave them where they are.

A good investment is the cheap staple gun Crappy Tire sells.
 
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That staple gun goes on sale on the 31st. Noticed it in the flier and plan on getting one as well.
 
Nightforce Benchrest 8xby32x 56mm, Hirsch Presission -Peter Dobson a sponser here stocks them. you will not be disapointed.
 
Hey all,

Thanks for the great advice - much appreciated!

I like the sound of something adjustable, I will have to go look at the Bushnell for sure as well as a few of the other ones mentioned and see how they look.

What adjustments are pretty key to have on a scope? Just browsing around the Leupold etc. websites shows some with 3 adjustable knob thingies and some have less. What do all these things do and how do you use them?

On reloading, it seems like it's the thing to do (although the business side of my brain finds it hard to believe that it is cheaper AND better quality than the factory....that seems like where the tradeoff should be).

Crappy tire stapler sounds like a good plan to me!
 
If you are only shooting a couple hundred rounds a year or less at short range, factory ammo is the the way to go. However if you plan to reach out past 500 yards you must reload and use match bullets. Reloading allows you to "tune the load" to your rifle. For the price you would pay for 10 boxes (200 rounds) of factory match ammo, you could have yourself set up with a nice reloading kit.
 
K1LLswitch said:
Hey all,


What adjustments are pretty key to have on a scope? Just browsing around the Leupold etc. websites shows some with 3 adjustable knob thingies and some have less. What do all these things do and how do you use them?

On reloading, it seems like it's the thing to do (although the business side of my brain finds it hard to believe that it is cheaper AND better quality than the factory....that seems like where the tradeoff should be).

Crappy tire stapler sounds like a good plan to me!
Click to expand...
The turret on the top is your elevation turret. Adjusts the vertical impact of the bullet. The turret on your right hand side(looking down the scope) is your windage turret. It adjusts the horizontal impact of the bullet. Now some have a turret on the left and it is your side focus. Scopes without it have the adjustment on the front objective of the scope.

As for reloading it is way better than factory ammo. When I load, I control everything. The main thing is the amount of powder that goes into the case. With the scale I use I am weighing my powder down to the hundredth of a grain. This is way more consistent than the factory loaded ammo. Factory match ammo is good, but being able to tune your load for your gun and know that the consistency in your loading is bang on, it takes the round out of the equation. If you know your gun can shoot with the ammo that you loaded for it, when you miss, you know its something you did rather than the rifle or the ammo.
 
K1LLswitch said:
Next off, what to shoot. My family has a quarter section of farm land and forest not too far from town, so I was hoping to set-up some targets down in the field and shoot from up on the hill where the house is (so that bullets will terminate in the ground vs. going into unknown areas). But what do I shoot at?
K1LLswitch
Click to expand...

If the distance is 300 yards or less, I would use paper targets and stands as you can still see your hits at that distance with a decent power scope or spotting scope.

Beyond that, I would mostly use steel gongs like the ones we use at out local range:

Picture2009.jpg


Picture2011.jpg


The advantage to these is that you can see and hear your hits even out to 1000 yards (or more) through your scope, without the need for a spotter or someone manning the target. And the hits are clean enough that they can be measured if you wish.

All that you need to do to maintain them is drive down range and re-paint them when needed. You can also put a target stand next to each one, at each distance and just use them to ensure that you're on target before printing a group. They're really handy, if I had land that is the way I would go for targets.
 
Buy the .223 rem., Buy a used 4x24x40/50 bushnell 4200, spend a year shooting at 100 yds and learn to bull a trigger properly.
During this year get set up and learn to reload properly. If you ever plan to get good enough to shoot matches you,ll find like I believe that half of the matches are won in the basement first.
Click to expand...

.22lr???

Why not a .22lr? Wouldn't it be the way to go. First get a .22 shot that a year from 50-200 yards, then decide if one wanted a .223 or .308. Either way everyone should have a .22, only 4 cents a shot.
 
Thanks Kombayotch - those gongs sound pretty cool - where do you get something like that? (And those are nice looking groups at 1000 yards).

As for a .22LR - I've contemplated this too, but I have yet to find a .22lr that I'm excited about. The cheap ammo sounds awesome, but I'm much more likely to get a gun and fall in love with it for a few years than start out small and work up to it.

Are there any decent "precision" .22LR rifles around?
 
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