WHAT THE!?!?! I Need Help!!!!

Crazy.kayaker

Crazy.kayaker

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So I went up to test some loads today but I pretty much stopped after 5 rounds from each of my 4 loads I brought up. I got my scope zeroed at 25 and it's 2" high at 100 yards and easy to compensate for. My problem is when I try my handloads it looks like a shotgun hit the paper as I get 4-6" groupings. Better then the arc I think as we can now treat whats wrong I hope. I've used everything from Boattail hollowpoints (polytipped and non polytippped) to round nose interlocks with the same problem. Am I seating the bullets wrong? or would it be the powder I'm using? Half my loads are with Varget the other have with IMR4895.

When I load my rounds I
Clean the brass, Winchester/Federal/Remington Premium, I don't mix brass, in my tumbler then deprime/resize. I then clean in my tumbler again and trim to length, I then seat my primer (winchester Large Rifle) after that I weigh my powder loads and pour in to the brass. I then seat the bullet and make sure they are all at the proper OAL.

If I can't find my problem and fix it I'm gonna need to use factory 180 grain loads. If you need to know more just ask I need help with my reloading.
 
First, I would suspect scope related issues....then loose guard screws. I can't imagine groups "growing" that much in a gun you know. Or is the gun new to you.
Given the equipment you describe, I assume you are not new to reloading?
 
You didn't say what powder charge. Maybe they are so light that they are not stabalizing in the 12 inch twist.
 
What optic are you using? I agree with JEC, sounds like a mounting issue. What type of rings bases? And forgive me but what rifle is an M88, what action?

Scott
 
m39a2
The M-88 is a Winchester lever action designed for high pressure rounds like the .308, .243, and the .284. I believe it was manufactured from the late '50s till the mid '70s.

Crazy.kayaker
There is no reason why your handloads should not equal or surpass the accuracy of the factory loads. You need to check the mounts, both the ring and the base screws. If those check out, check the action screws. If those check out try a second scope.

Once you have ensured that all you scope and action screws are tight, alternately fire a group with your handloads then with the factory stuff. If the factory ammunition continues to outperform your handloads, you then need to take a closer look at your loading procedure and equipment. Perhaps your scale is not repeatable, check it with check weights, but first, you should remove any question concerning the rifle or the sights.
 
My scopes not to blaim cause factory loads groups under .5 inches at 100 Yards but hand loads wouldn't. So the scope and mounting job works fine it's my home built loads

I forgot to mention I brought up two loads I had tested last fall and grouped fine when tested but now has the same WACKED out performance as the untested loads so I know I'm making a mistake when I load.

The control loads were
Factory 150 Grain Federal (used to zero scope and again before I packed up to make sure scope was still zero'ed).

Winchester Brass and primers
46.5 gr Varget
125 gr Speer TNT

Federal Brass
Winchester Primers
47 gr Varget
150 gr Noslers Balistic Tip BT
Same load that was wacked out last time I tried to zero scope.

My test loads are
Remington Brass
Winchester Primers
Varget 41-47 Gr behind 150 gr Hornady NR Interlock, 160 gr Noslers HPBT and 168 gr Hornady HP Interlock
IMR 4895 38-42.5 behind 180gr Hornady SP Interlock
The test loads were loaded from min to max according to my Lymans manual 49th edition.

I did have to have my resizing die fixed with new parts (brass got stuck when depriming punch got bent) between the two loads I tested last fall and these loads so could it be the die itself has damage the gun smith didn't see?

Boomer I just checked the scope, rings and base and they are tight no wiggle no nothing as for different scope....I don't have any unless someone here wants to lend me theirs.
 
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If everything else checks out, then you need to check your scale. If you don't have a set of check weights, weigh anything that will approximate the weight of your powder charge, then bounce the pan several times and see if you get the same reading over and over.

Your dies aren't the problem if the ammo cycles easily through the rifle and there is enough neck tension to hold the bullet. Good ammo is little more than a matter of consistancy. If the rounds are the same length, if they cycle through the rifle easily, and the bullets at least appear to be straight in the necks, and the primers are snug in their pockets, your ammo is good, but your scale might be the spoiler.
 
Ok. If you shot factory loads last fall, and are now having problems, try factory loads again just to make sure. If they're shooting wild, find out what's going on with the gun. Don't rule out the internal working of the scope. I had a Bushnell that, after about a million rounds, wouldn't let me group worth a damned. I took it off and gave it a shake. The reticle was rattling around inside. Gave that one to the kids to play with and finish breaking :D Check the stock fasteners, give the barrel a good look over....whatever.....SOMETHING might be loose.

If you shot factory and hand loads on the same trip to the range this time, the problem is not in your gun, but in your loads.

If it's in your loads, do a standard workup. Pick a bullet, pick a powder, start at minimum charge and work up in .5 grain steps. Do 5 cartridges for each powder load. Change targets EACH time you go from one group to the next. At the end of the day, see which load grouped best. Mess around with that powder charge, changing in .2 grain steps and see what is best. If you can't get it down to at least what a factory load will give you, switch bullets or powder and start again.

Working up a load that your gun is happy with can take a hell of a long time. I must have went through 600 rounds in my 300 win mag before I got tight groups. It only took about 4 months to find it :D I should also note that you should check several reloading manuals for min and max charges. My happy load for my 300 win mag is below the starting load in one of the books that I consulted.
 
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Have you tried factory loads at 25 yards? Maybe your scope is making things a little wonky at that short a range (parallax error).
 
Your loads look OK, nothing too low or high. However, when having difficulties or just starting reloading, I would try one bullet, with one powder, different charges.

There is really no sense in trying to work up loads from 125gr to 180gr, when nothing is grouping.

So, the first thing I would do is clean your barrel really well, use a copper solvent if you have some. Then try loading only the 150gr Interlocks or the 150gr BT's with Varget, and work on that load. You may have to play with the bullet seating depths, if you have room in the mag to seat further out. Make sure they cycle well though...

Once you've figured out a load with that bullet, then try the 165's or 180's...
 
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why not try your factory ammo even a couple three shot groups,if they dont work o.k. clean your gunbarrel of copper fouling, then try the factory stuff again,, i had a fellow with a very abused weatherby mk5 that shot like your gun,, he just never cleaned out the copper fouling,,wade
 
Crazy.kayaker said:
I did have to have my resizing die fixed with new parts (brass got stuck when depriming punch got bent) between the two loads I tested last fall and these loads so could it be the die itself has damage the gun smith didn't see?


If your dies have no visible damage,then they are probably OK.they are made out of a heavy chunk of tool steel and are virtually impossible to distort.Sometimes you can damage the inside polish by running dirty brass through them(nickel plated brass is also hard on them)but other than that ,if they look ok they probably are .Unless you cross threaded it into you press with a pipe wrench.HeeHee
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I just cleaned my barrel twice for copper fouling when I got home from the range. I clean it after every trip to the range I have a copper and powder residue cleaner I let sit for a good hour before I clean it out and lube the gun with Graphite. I made up the loads over several weeks when it was -20 or colder. Since my first loads work fine when I tested them I wasn't expecting any messed up loads like this when I reloaded.

When I zero'd the scope it took me 5 rounds to zero I then fired a 3 round group that a penny would cover. I then went out to 100 yards and was 1/4 inch off center so I zeroed that made two, 3 round groupings 1 a quarter the other a nickel could cover. After testing a few loads that had horrible groupings I fired a few loads I had tried last fall and made up that worked good before with the same horrible results. Before I packed up I made a 4 round grouping of factory loads that a quarter would cover again (used my last 4 factory loads). Could be the varget powder I used this time around is CRAP. Still leaves the IMR 4895.

I'm using a lee reloading kit that came with everything but the caliber spacific equipment. So I'm gonna have to pull the bullets made with Varget and then try using IMR 4895 or a different powder. What load should I make up first only gonna pull one test set apart for now.
 
I would agree as previously posted verify your scale is reading properly. Another thing is did you get new primers since the batch of reloads that you did that where good? your using the same primers with both powders.
 
Crazy.kayaker said:
I'm using a lee reloading kit that came with everything but the caliber spacific equipment.
Click to expand...

AH-HA!

If that Lee kit includes the Lee Powder Scale, throw that POS as far and as hard as you can and get a decent RCBS, Redding, Lyman, or Hornady scale. The Lee scale is neither accurate or repeatable, and it is the one piece of gear Lee sells that I really detest. This thing will get you in trouble.
 
Stop twiddling your scope knobs. Who cares where it hits on the target? Until you can find a load that groups does it really matter if you are out 1 inch or 1 foot? As long as you are hitting somewhere on the paper leave the dials alone.
 
Your not the first person to experience crappy reloads.... As stated above, check your scale to see if it repeats - you can break down some of the remaining ammo if you have a bullet puller.
FWIW - I've used the cheapo Lee scale for 10 years, no problemo. BTW - Still using that cheap Tasco scope that you dented a while back?
 
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