what type of stock on k98
- Thread starter kevin1797
- Start date
K98's from 1941 have both types depending on where they are made. If it was refinished by the Russians then anything is possible, due to mixed parts. Often they were put together based on what was availble at the factory. Many German ones from 1941 have cupped butt plates, but I have seen Russian Captures and Portugese Contract ones with flat as well. This is just what I have seen, I am not an expert though.
When production began 98K's were first made with flat butt plates and these appeared as late as 1941. The switch to cupped butt plates started in 1940 in response to splitting problems with laminated stocks. A 41 dated rifle could have either but I would say a cupped butt plate would be the norm for a 41.
flat or cupped
You can tell if it's a RC by a set of crossed rifles, that looks like and "X" on the receiver.
I'm not saying your rifle is or isn't.
Another thing that collectors seem to disregard is the fact that stocks took a real beating during field conditions. Whether during battle, training or just general use, stocks were broken and replaced on a regular basis. In the field, they just stuck on whichever stock was on hand at the time in the armorer's trailer or depot. Serviceable stocks from otherwise unserviceable rifles, would be saved for reuse. Every military force in the world, does the same thing.
There were thousands of K98s around during and after the war that were mismatched in such a manner. It doesn't make them any less desirable just not matching. That being said, a pristine example more than likely never saw service of any kind. It depends what you want. Some of my favorite milsurps, are beaten to hell and look like they've been there and come back.
The Russians, French, Norwegians, Finns, Danes, Israelis, Yugoslavs, Czhecks, Austrians, Germans, etc, mixed and matched them when they repaired them post war as well. In many cases, they tried to match them up as closely as possible. In the case of the RCs, they mixed and matched as long as the rifle stayed in spec or close to it.
Your rifle, may or may not be matching throughout. The chances of you finding the missing bits to put it back together with matching numbers are close to impossible. If the laminated stock on it has a matching number on the underside, it's likely an issue stock. If not, who knows?
There are stocks out there to be had but they are'nt cheap. Funny thing, I had a fellow insist that all of the Norwegian rifles that were converted to 30-06, all had flat butt plates. Well, I've seen hundreds of them on pallets and yes, they used both flat and cupped buttplates.
You can tell if it's a RC by a set of crossed rifles, that looks like and "X" on the receiver.
I'm not saying your rifle is or isn't.
Another thing that collectors seem to disregard is the fact that stocks took a real beating during field conditions. Whether during battle, training or just general use, stocks were broken and replaced on a regular basis. In the field, they just stuck on whichever stock was on hand at the time in the armorer's trailer or depot. Serviceable stocks from otherwise unserviceable rifles, would be saved for reuse. Every military force in the world, does the same thing.
There were thousands of K98s around during and after the war that were mismatched in such a manner. It doesn't make them any less desirable just not matching. That being said, a pristine example more than likely never saw service of any kind. It depends what you want. Some of my favorite milsurps, are beaten to hell and look like they've been there and come back.
The Russians, French, Norwegians, Finns, Danes, Israelis, Yugoslavs, Czhecks, Austrians, Germans, etc, mixed and matched them when they repaired them post war as well. In many cases, they tried to match them up as closely as possible. In the case of the RCs, they mixed and matched as long as the rifle stayed in spec or close to it.
Your rifle, may or may not be matching throughout. The chances of you finding the missing bits to put it back together with matching numbers are close to impossible. If the laminated stock on it has a matching number on the underside, it's likely an issue stock. If not, who knows?
There are stocks out there to be had but they are'nt cheap. Funny thing, I had a fellow insist that all of the Norwegian rifles that were converted to 30-06, all had flat butt plates. Well, I've seen hundreds of them on pallets and yes, they used both flat and cupped buttplates.
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Mauser from which factory? According to Backbone of the Wehrmacht (RD Law), the Oberndorf (byf) Mausers 41 had a cupped plate. The Borsigwalde (ar) Mausers 41 had either a flat or cupped. That's the reference for me and the ones I have confirm this. I appreciate that there are variations out there, but i prefer to stick to the proven true.
Coyote Ugly
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Don't put too much faith in BBOTW by Law as many of the K98 examples used in the book were humped and are not correct.
Coyote Ugly
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
What is the code on the top of the receiver and the serial number?
Example:1941 Oberndorf Portugese Contract Mauser, either flat or cupped is correct depending on the serial number and letter block prefix or suffix.
You are getting somre great advice. The date is important 41 (1941), as stated this year used both flat and cupped depending on the maker. The next key is the maker code, (Mauser - byf or ar) or another maker bnz, dou, etc. Some makers used the cupped butt plate almost soley in 1941 but as mentioned some makers such as 'ar' used flat and cupped, there are trends for particular serial number block.
If you want us to pin it down we need the year, maker code, serial number and letter prefex. Eg. byf 41 8432 a
Law does have some mistakes, the authors of the book Kriegsmodell took a very scientific approach and are very accurate. They haven't released volumes 1 & 2 however, which will cover the early years.
The original sporterized stock may have the answer as mentioned. The stock channel should have a serial number, if it matches your serial number the stock is matched to your rifle. If that is the case, if the stock is flat butt plate, you replace it with a flat butt plate, if it is cupped, replace with a cupped butt plate.
Pictures would help.
If you want us to pin it down we need the year, maker code, serial number and letter prefex. Eg. byf 41 8432 a
Law does have some mistakes, the authors of the book Kriegsmodell took a very scientific approach and are very accurate. They haven't released volumes 1 & 2 however, which will cover the early years.
The original sporterized stock may have the answer as mentioned. The stock channel should have a serial number, if it matches your serial number the stock is matched to your rifle. If that is the case, if the stock is flat butt plate, you replace it with a flat butt plate, if it is cupped, replace with a cupped butt plate.
Pictures would help.
A number of years ago David M. Armstrong of Alexandria, Va., printed up a little booklet that was esentially a check-list of Kar 98k rifles by manufacturer, critical parts, etc. He listed 365 variants of the Kar 98k rifle which came from a SINGLE COLLECTION, plus a bunch of others. Likely his list is pretty much exhaustive.
Good luck.
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Good luck.
.
What source would you suggest as a reference?
This is a great forum but sometimes you need to seek other resources to answer you questions. The problem with K98 collecting is that there were many legit variations produced during the war and perhaps even more variations created after the war.
Best Resources in no particular order:
www.k98kforum.com
Law's Backbone of the Wehrmacht
Kriegsmodell book
g43forum.com
http://www.ycgg.org/ycgg_ww2german_pdf.htm
From the research I have done a cupped buttplate stock would be correct. The stock should have a Waffen amt "63" or "655". You are fortunate because most surplus stocks that one can find are cupped buttplate stocks and usually have one of these two Waffen amts. Mauser Obendorf was a large producer of stocks and even subcontracted to other K98 producers, they also made replacement stocks for Waffen Meisters.
1941 is an intersting year, because in 1940 and 1941 several changes took place. Please look at the reference below by Robert Jensen:
"The waffenamts on the code “42” rifle changed in 1940 from Waffenamt “63” to Waffenamt “655”.
Some “no” letter range rifles can be found with the “63” proofs. A Mixture of “63” and “655” proofs can be
found on the same rifle in the”a” range but as soon as the “63” proofed parts were used only the “655”
proofed rifles appear. Flat buttplates were discontinued late in 1940 and cupped buttplates were used to
prevent the separation of the Butt stock. The known serial number for the code “42” 1940 rifle is from 1660
to 5499gg with an estimated production run of 340,000 rifles. Subcontracted parts, such as the buttplates coded” bpr” and “brg”
appear. Kriegsmarine, and Luftwaffe rifles are known to have been produced in 1940 but no examples have yet been reported.
In 1941 the Mauser Oberndorf manufacturing code was changed from “42” to “byf” and the
receiver date was changed from a four-digit to a two-digit date. Army and Luftwaffe rifles were produced
in 1941. The front sight hood was introduced. Small parts (bolt parts, floorplates, followers, and front
sight bases) with Waffenamt “WaA103” and “WaA140” proofs were used (made by F.N. in occupied
Belgium). The known serial number range for the 1941 “byf” K98k is from 4514 to 6474hh with an
estimated production run of 350,000 rifles. Luftwaffe issued s/n 1059I has the luft acceptance proof
stamped on the right side of the butt stock."
I hope this helps.
Best Resources in no particular order:
www.k98kforum.com
Law's Backbone of the Wehrmacht
Kriegsmodell book
g43forum.com
http://www.ycgg.org/ycgg_ww2german_pdf.htm
From the research I have done a cupped buttplate stock would be correct. The stock should have a Waffen amt "63" or "655". You are fortunate because most surplus stocks that one can find are cupped buttplate stocks and usually have one of these two Waffen amts. Mauser Obendorf was a large producer of stocks and even subcontracted to other K98 producers, they also made replacement stocks for Waffen Meisters.
1941 is an intersting year, because in 1940 and 1941 several changes took place. Please look at the reference below by Robert Jensen:
"The waffenamts on the code “42” rifle changed in 1940 from Waffenamt “63” to Waffenamt “655”.
Some “no” letter range rifles can be found with the “63” proofs. A Mixture of “63” and “655” proofs can be
found on the same rifle in the”a” range but as soon as the “63” proofed parts were used only the “655”
proofed rifles appear. Flat buttplates were discontinued late in 1940 and cupped buttplates were used to
prevent the separation of the Butt stock. The known serial number for the code “42” 1940 rifle is from 1660
to 5499gg with an estimated production run of 340,000 rifles. Subcontracted parts, such as the buttplates coded” bpr” and “brg”
appear. Kriegsmarine, and Luftwaffe rifles are known to have been produced in 1940 but no examples have yet been reported.
In 1941 the Mauser Oberndorf manufacturing code was changed from “42” to “byf” and the
receiver date was changed from a four-digit to a two-digit date. Army and Luftwaffe rifles were produced
in 1941. The front sight hood was introduced. Small parts (bolt parts, floorplates, followers, and front
sight bases) with Waffenamt “WaA103” and “WaA140” proofs were used (made by F.N. in occupied
Belgium). The known serial number range for the 1941 “byf” K98k is from 4514 to 6474hh with an
estimated production run of 350,000 rifles. Luftwaffe issued s/n 1059I has the luft acceptance proof
stamped on the right side of the butt stock."
I hope this helps.
