Whats better

andygumpers

andygumpers

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What rifle is "better" i have been looking at a norinco M305 for around $450.I have seen a few SPRINGFIELD M1A STANDARD's around for $1500 used. Now i would like to know whats the differnce the price :) . but will one shoot a tighter group then the other? Thaks just curious
 
Yes, one will shoot a tighter group than the other. Test them side by side, and you will be able to find out which will fire the tightest group.
Don't assume that grouping and price are related. The individual rifles would have to be tested.
 
Theoretically a box standard Norinco and a box standard Springfield will be equal. They both were supposedly made to the same specification, one for nefarious purposes and one for commercial purposes (you figure out which is which).

You question about better-ness is not easy to answer. At the Aug 07 Ottawa M14 clinic we had a very early blued Alan Lever sporting M14 with a US walnut stock and no left-side scope bracket or screw holes. It was the prettiest Norinco I've ever seen. It tested well, and was even tighter with some shims. We had an early production military-looking Norinco that needed work. The later batches of Norincos had noticeably better back sights, fewer wobbly parts and better stocks, but no rifle met every test perfectly. That said, a few at the MilCun clinic were close. With US commercial Springfields, the problems seem to be the same. Different batches have different qualities and problems.

So, if you find an early Springfield with USGI parts that is priced the same as a recent Springfield with the equivalent to Norinco reproduction parts, buy it. Otherwise, the only differences are imperial vs metric, name recognition and warranty. And are they worth $1100 plus tax?
 
I have been interested in a norinco m305 for some time, but still unsure as to what should still be checked on them, especially if essential steps even before test firing.

where i live in saskatoon, not know of any gunsmith experienced with m14's and no clinics here. that is what is holding me back.

quality control vs springfield aside, a checklist from you knowledgable cgn'ers would be great on what still needs to be checked or done on a box m305, or is there an up to date thread on this ?

to help andygumpers and guys like me work towards a final purchase decision. thanks
 
Look for Lazarus2000's recent post.
The issues which can arise with M305s are well established, and there are remedies. Springfields can have issues of their own.
Personally I could not talk myself into paying the premium for the Springfield.
 
I would not pay more than $1100 for a used Standard M1A. I think Questar can obtain you a bran new Springfield near the same price (around $1500 for a Standard, $2200 for a National Match) with all taxes and import fees.
 
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andygumpers said:
What rifle is "better" i have been looking at a norinco M305 for around $450.I have seen a few SPRINGFIELD M1A STANDARD's around for $1500 used. Now i would like to know whats the differnce the price :) . but will one shoot a tighter group then the other? Thaks just curious
Click to expand...

M1A NM is probably a better choice than M305+hours of gunsmithing.
The question is do you want to spend 4K-5K on M1A NM or spend
$450 and "play and learn" the rifle yourself.

If you are afraid of doing any gunsmithing work yourself, I'd say M1A NM is
probably the best rifle for you. But if you are not afraid to take M305
apart, put a new barrel, install AR15 flash hider, fit the bolt,
unitize the gas system, fit the guide rod, bed the stock than I say buy M305.
Some of the things you can learn from the M14 guys on this and other
sites are simply invaluable.

You can buy M1A NM, shoot it once in a while and know nothing about
how your rifle works and why it is accurate.

If you buy M305, after few months with it you'll be saying:
"This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is MINE..."
 
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7 norincos so far for me..... 2 more on the way...... and i haven't even considered a springfield....... and I won't.
Dispite all the info about "issues" with the norc rifles..... they are all fairly easily addressed at home.... without a whack of specialized tools.
barell indexing might be a tough fix without a suitable barrel vice/action wrench.... but shimming a loose gas system..... or re fitting an oprod guide...... these are easily done at home.
i will be working with Katana soon to finish a dvd that shows in detail how to "fix' some of the quirks with the norincos.
A norinco... you can get worked on in canada..... or you can do it yourself..... A springfield.... you might void any warranty by having it serviced by anyone not recognized by springfield. AND you have to jump through all the import export crap just to have any issues dealt with.

so...... you guys that are a little put off by hearing about the "quirks" with the norcs...... They are an excellent rifle for 399....ish
AND ALL THE INFO TO REMEDY THE QUIRKS IS HERE ON CGN
 
Last fall the guy beside me at the range had a Springfield. It actually had a nice looking stock. I was shooting my usual sub. 2" with open sights out of my Norc. He was shooting 1.5- 2" with his scoped Springfield. Worth 3-4 times more? Not to me.
 
Years ago, when the Sproingfields had real parts in them, a friend had a rack grade M1A. Shot just fine. Decided he wanted to upgrade, bought the M1A NM. It didn't shoot anywhere near as well as the rack grade first one. Sold the NM, bought a rack grade TRW. I bedded it, tweaked it. It shot like a house on fire. Unfortunately, it can't be taken to a range any more. I'm trying to get the present owner to buy a M305 for the reciever so that we can swap all the GI parts onto the stripped Chinese receiver. Sell off the leftover Norinco bits, keep the TRW receiver to maintain 12(3) status.
 
My 1st M14 type rifle was a problematic Springfield Armory, Inc. Scout Squad.
The Scout is gone and I now own eight Chinese M14s :cool:
I see no reason to buy an M1A from SAI when Chinese M14s are available.
 
Yeah,

Tiriaq, that TRW owner needs a kick in the :evil: ass regarding the parts swap. I told 'em that we could sell off all the Norc parts to pay for the remaining receiver, but they are very anal about things.

That would be one sweet project for us ;)
 
Come on guys, anybody would never buy a firearm of any kind witch would have only one bad issue. Norcs are full of bad issues, from one end to the other.
 
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8ball, i mean no offense ...... but.... have you even handled a norc m14s ?
I have seen many posts by you making claims against the norc rifles and it seems you just hate the norc product.
Yes there are some ..... minor issues with the m14s out of china, but..... every one i have shot was a decent rifle, and with some minor tweaking... they are more than decent rifles.
As a canadian, you run the same crapshoot if yer buying a springfield.... that are KNOWN to be out of spec with usgi dimensions.... on the MOST inportant parts..... bolts and receivers.
I'd rather have a chinese norc receiver over a SA receiver ANY DAY.
My friends in the U.S. would rather have a rifle built on a FORGED chinese receiver.... than buy a springfield.... and that should tell you something.
the norc m14s is a good deal, especially at 399.
if you want usgi quality...... buy a 12(3) m14..... oh ... you can't..... well then, buy a norc m14s and upgrade it..... still cheaper than the lowest offering from springfield.
 
This is your opinion but not mine and yes I did handled and shoot with a Norc and I have not been impressed at all. IMHO the argument that about forged receivers are better than cast ones is a proof of a total ignorance about today's modern metalurgy. This discussion makes me remembering in 1980 a friend of mine was comparing his bran new half price Lada. He was yealling to everybody that his Lada was a way better than my bran new Accord. He learned...;)
 
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8ball,

I hear you about the Lada's and that fella who would preach about the Ladas and their perceived quality control.

BUT (big but here).... with this crop of Norinco-Plinkos (I've owned 2 of them), they are great for the money. And I also do (lots and lots) of repairs on Sproingfields (owned 4 of them) too.

This batch of M14's are not worth the $ 399 one lays out for them. Shzt no !

They are worth a fzck of a lot more ! The parts are gravy or icing on the cake (metaphor here) when you get a forged receiver for $ 399. I've bought a $ 700 M1A receiver back in 1993 (once) and I will never do it again. I spent a pile of time lapping in that New in the wrap ($ 35) TRW USGI bolt to a TRW USGI profiled barrel. That receiver was an unpleasant shock.....

Enough Said !!
 
I never said that Norcs receivers are no good. For me the work needed to make it a decent rifle has no justification to be, whatever the price.
 
8ball said:
I never said that Norcs receivers are no good. For me the work needed to make it a decent rifle has no justification to be, whatever the price.
Click to expand...


But then in another thread you indicate that you would like to use a Norc. to make up a 18.5" Socom at one of Hungry's clinics.
 
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