What's the deal with corrosive ammo

[happydude]

So corrosive ammo seems to be a real pain the ass for milsurp shooters. I shot my mosin and sks one sunday but left it until wednesday night to clean. Needless to say there was a lot of the lovely orange rust on the sks and even the mosin had little spots. So my question to the milsurp guys is why the heck armies would want to shoot this stuff through their guns. It's a pain to have to boil water to clean up a rifle for the modern shooter, but out in the battlefield I would think that corrosive ammo might have posed a larger problem.

Is corrosive ammo inherently cheaper or easier to make or something like that. Or does it take time for the ammo to turn corrosive. And, if corrosive ammo really is the devil, why would an army want this stuff??

 

[canucklehead]

I think it's more of a 'technology at the time' issue. I believe corrosive primers are cheaper/easier to make, and they last longer in storage (from what I've heard).

There shouldn't be any modern (ie: made post 80's) ammo that is corrosive. It's mainly an old milsurp problem.

 

[Canuck223]

Because it works, and works well. The primers go bang each time. Weapons maintainance is an expectation, corrosive or not.

 

[Ralliowiec]

You don't have to boil water. Just use Windex or something similar. Works for me everytime.

Ralli

 

[V1]

Shelf life of primers is a key. Mil specs primers use more stable ingredients.
The combination of regular maintenance + Windex / household ammounia as substitute of originally used alkali bore cleaners solves all problems.

 

[happydude]

So berdan (corrosive) primers last longer than boxer (non-corrosive) primers? I just assumed that it was the same manufacturing process regardless of primer type. I don't have any problems cleaning after corrosive ammo, but what about the soldier in the field (or did they issue windex to soldiers )

 

[Canuck223]

So berdan (corrosive) primers last longer than boxer (non-corrosive) primers? I just assumed that it was the same manufacturing process regardless of primer type. I don't have any problems cleaning after corrosive ammo, but what about the soldier in the field (or did they issue windex to soldiers )

Berdan and Boxer have nothing to do with corrosive or non-corrosive. It's possible to get boxer primers that are corosive, and non-corrosive berdan primers.

 

[dangertree]

but what about the soldier in the field

As long as they don't stop shooting, they're good to go indefinitely.

In reality, there are cleaning products made to clean corrosive ammo. I asked a good friend who served with the JNA in the former Yugo how they used to clean their rifles (including the Mausers they shot in high school), he never heard of anyone using hot water, but did describe a milky cleaning oil that sounds like what I understand the Germans used in WWII. It was a Yugo word for the solution, I'll ask him again what it was called.

British soldiers (at least) did have a funnel for pouring boiling water through the bore of their Enfields.

I don't believe there were any Warsaw Pact issue Windex bottles.

 

[Sgt Striker]

As far as being a pain to clean at the front, soldiers were told to "piss" down the bore to clean them in a pinch, and prevent corrosion. This pearl of information was passed onto me at a local gun show, from a WWII vet.

Cheers
Dean

 

[greendoh]

As far as being a pain to clean at the front, soldiers were told to "piss" down the bore to clean them in a pinch, and prevent corrosion. This pearl of information was passed onto me at a local gun show, from a WWII vet.

Cheers
Dean

Not suprising since Urine contains alot of ammonia, which is the same ingredient in Windex that (supposedly) breaks down the corrosive salts after shooting.

Now I've heard alot of yammering both ways from people about Windex not working, but in my relatively reduced experience, windex works like a charm in a pinch.

 

[Calum]

Yup piss was used.
My Great Great Grandpa said so.

Windex, and or household ammonia will work.

Unless you have a tight fitting funnel make sure to strip your rifle down to prevent water from getting in under the woodwork, and being left to rust the metal.

Hot water is often used as it drys faster then cold water, and will break down oils abit better.

 

[CanAm]

Ammonia has no effect on Potasssium Chloride salts. Water is what dissolves the salts. Windex is just handy.
Even current Russian military ammo uses corrosive primers. They are more reliable after storage and in cold weather.

 

[Calum]

If I just use hot water, then nothing comes out, but if I pour in some Windex I see very very Black water come out, and then I follow with several rinses of clear hot water, and follow up with a normal cleaning.

It would be nice if a Chemist type could confirm what is going on here, and what works vs Potassium Chloride salts.

 

[10x]

If I just use hot water, then nothing comes out, but if I pour in some Windex I see very very Black water come out, and then I follow with several rinses of clear hot water, and follow up with a normal cleaning.

It would be nice if a Chemist type could confirm what is going on here, and what works vs Potassium Chloride salts.

Hot water works best to desolve and remove any salts. Water with ammonia in it will remove copper fouling as well as the salts, not to mention any oil and powder residue in the bore.
I start cleaning with "brake Kleen" to get the powder fouling out then household ammonia to get the copper fouling out, then hot water to rince, a couple of dry patches and then an oily patch. ATF works very well to keep bores from rusting.

 

[Cocked&Locked]

If I just use hot water, then nothing comes out, but if I pour in some Windex I see very very Black water come out, and then I follow with several rinses of clear hot water, and follow up with a normal cleaning.

It would be nice if a Chemist type could confirm what is going on here, and what works vs Potassium Chloride salts.

Hit amazon.com and order up a copy of "Hatcher's notebook". No certified gun nut should be without at least one copy, preferably two. (one to keep, one loner, so when it dosen't come back you aren't without) There is a whole section of the book dedicated to this subject, interesting as it an unsolved problem at the time. Looks at how they discovered the cause of the corrosion and what they found to do about it.