Whats the deal with the Spike's Tactical Forging Lower?

J

Jeff000

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I hope this is the right place for this.
Was looking on Questars site and noticed this
st-lr-forging_1.jpg

Now its only 32 bucks.

What is the deal with this? is that the part that needs to be registered? is that the cost for something to be done to a different lower that you buy?
If I buy this what separates it from the other stripped lowers for 170 bucks or more?

I am very confused with the whole plethora of parts for the AR's, I would like to build one here one day, just trying to figure out where to start.
 
That is a raw forging. It has had no machining done to it. It is not classified as a firearm. It is essentially a paper weight. If you buy one with the intentions of finishing it, be warned that it will most likely cost you more than if you were to buy one already finished. You also must register it when it is capable of discharging a round (have fun getting a straight answer from the RCMP for at what point that is lol). As long as you have an RPAL and you haven't machined the Fire Control Group to be able to accept a 'fun switch' (auto sear), it is no problem to register at all.

I don't know if that logo is super-imposed on the photo or if it's actually etched onto the receiver, but, if it is actually on the receiver, when you drilled the selector hole and anodized the lower, it would likely not be there anymore.
 
Ah ok.
So basically for someone that has no idea what I am doing stay the f away from it. lol.
I do have an rpal, and I do have access and ability on a few different machining tools but if its more then making it look pretty I think I will stick to finished lower.

On another note, not having an auto sear machined.... does that mean any ar could be made an auto by machining a hole? I understand if you do not answer this.

Thanks for the clarification :)



I keep looking at the EE, but never know whats a good deal, most complete guns are not configured how I would want, and most parts seem to be cheaper to buy new.
 
unless you are a machinist, or have access to a good one, a forging is not for you, although would make a nice paper weight.

Jeff000 said:
On another note, not having an auto sear machined.... does that mean any ar could be made an auto by machining a hole?
Click to expand...


No, the internals of a receiver are different from a semi to an auto, a semi will not accept auto trigger parts.
 
Jeff000 said:
Ah ok.
So basically for someone that has no idea what I am doing stay the f away from it. lol.
I do have an rpal, and I do have access and ability on a few different machining tools but if its more then making it look pretty I think I will stick to finished lower.

On another note, not having an auto sear machined.... does that mean any ar could be made an auto by machining a hole? I understand if you do not answer this.

Thanks for the clarification :)



I keep looking at the EE, but never know whats a good deal, most complete guns are not configured how I would want, and most parts seem to be cheaper to buy new.
Click to expand...

You need a very different lower parts kit for it to go full auto.
 
The lower receiver for a selective fire rifle is machined to accept the auto sear, and drilled for the auto sear pivot pin. Semi auto lowers are machined in such a way that there is no room ofr an auto sear, and there is no pin hole.
The trigger, disconnector and selector are specific to either semi or selective versions.
In addition, a selective rifle uses a bolt carrier and firing pin designed to support auto fire.
 
A semi lower can accept all auto parts except for the auto sear. The walls are too thick for an auto sear to fit in a semi lower.

Trigger, disconnector, hammer, and selector all fit.
 
I would imagine getting the auto parts would be tough, and owning them most definitely against the law.


darkshadow said:
unless you are a machinist, or have access to a good one, a forging is not for you, although would make a nice paper weight.
Click to expand...

I am not a machinist. But I have access to a 7 axis cnc machine. And know how to make the cad drawings for it. Never made something this complicated, only ever simple parts for my rc car, lol.

I'm an Electrician by trade. Good friend owns a custom fab shop here. Time on the machine is easier then time with any of his staff. Just the machine time I trade for maintenance work at his shop.
 
Actually, as far as I know, only the auto-sear is a no-no, aside from that, the rest of the parts are legal. This is what I gathered when talking to one of the firearms techs at the RCMP, however, it could be one of those 'who you talk to on which day of the week' type things, lol.

Aside from a cnc machine (it can/has been done on manual machines), you'd also need either a wire or sink EDM machine to do the magwell OR a $150,000 broach and the machine that it goes into.
 
*MALICE* said:
Actually, as far as I know, only the auto-sear is a no-no, aside from that, the rest of the parts are legal. This is what I gathered when talking to one of the firearms techs at the RCMP, however, it could be one of those 'who you talk to on which day of the week' type things, lol.

Aside from a cnc machine (it can/has been done on manual machines), you'd also need either a wire or sink EDM machine to do the magwell OR a $150,000 broach and the machine that it goes into.
Click to expand...

Why couldn't the CNC do the inside of the magwell?
He has several huge machines, I only know how to use the CNC machines though, he has a 3 axis, 5 axis, and the 7 axis.
And I know how to use the laser/plasma/waterjet cutters.

So I could make it all auto parts minus the sear, and then when hell freezes over and auto is ok I could just add the sear? lol
Is there something in Canada that would allow me to be classed a manufacturer or something and able to have auto guns, kinda like in the states?
 
It's very difficult to entirely machine the magwell because of it's length compared to the very mall rads on the corners. If the spindle locks/orients on the machine(s), it's possible you could make a broaching tool to broach out the corners but it's kind of a P.I.T.A.

You could probably have all the parts minus the auto-sear (and without the clearance cut and hole in the receiver) and still be ok.......but then again, I don't make the rules. Anytime you're doing anything close to the fuzzy side of the law, it's a good idea to get it in writing from the RCMP.....unless of course you have a very good lawyer and a large amount of disposable income ;)

One problem I could foresee if you were using all the F/A parts (minus the auto sear) is that the auto sear holds the hammer back until the bolt carrier moves far enough forward that the bolt has locked before releasing the hammer. If there was no sear to hold the hammer and the hammer were to ride the firing pin/BCG back and ignite the primer before the bolt locked........well..needless to say bad things would happen very quickly. Realistically, it's probably a good idea if you just stick to the S/A parts anyways (except for maybe the bolt carrier).
 
I am pretty sure starting from this point is well past my abilities at this time.
But it is good information to know. Who would buy these "blanks" though? Seems anyone with the tools to make it complete would have the tools to make one from scratch.
 
If you had the tools to make a lower from a raw forging you likely would have all the tools to make it from billet. However, a forging is not the same as a billet. Forgings are inherently stronger than billet and using a forging would result in less wasted material.
When companies such as Stag or Bushmaster buy forgings, they buy many thousands at a time and probably don't pay much more than $15 each. Billet defineatly has it's place and there are a number of companies who make their own lowers from billet that I would easily say could stand up to the abuse a forging could (Alberta Tactical Rifle).

The blanks seem to be more of a novelty than anything else, but they are also for people who do have the tools and free time to make their own for the simple fact that they can. :)
 
Is there something in Canada that would allow me to be classed a manufacturer or something and able to have auto guns, kinda like in the states?
Click to expand...

Long answer = Yes. Short answer = No. There are companies that build/repair/possess F/A firearms in Canada (Colt Canada), But I would think it would be very difficult/expensive to get the approval.
 
The problem with doing the magwell on the cnc is that the magwell has sharp corners. An endmill cuts a rad 1/2 the dia of a cutter. 1/4 emdmill =1/8 rad. It's just not possible to get an emdmill small enough that is long enough and stiff enough to cut a parallel slot for the magazine. So even if you have cnc capability, you also have to realise you will have to make jigs to hold it and that you will have to machine basically from all four sides (you have to be able to pick up your centre line from any set up). You will also need a tap to do the buffer tube, and after all that you have to anodise it or paint it. Anodising is preferable even if you want to paint it as hard anodising gives a little extra toughness to the skin. To be classed as a manufacturer costs about $1500 and a bunch of paperwork
 
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